First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

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First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by Clackers » 6 months ago

Got a sudden day off yesterday, so I decided just to go in and and give it a go. Even not understanding everything.
Was good to see how I`d go. Highlighted a few problems to iron out. Overall I am quite happy and at the end of the day
I am sure it will be better than the kits I was making.

Any feedback will be great.

Recipe was from BCS. American pale ale.

I didn`t have all the hops so I just used cascade and centennial.
I balls up the hop additions. Thinking about a different recipe, at the time of brewing I added the 10 min additions at 30mins.
So a little extra bitterness.

I also tried to strain the wort into the fermentor. my strainer got blocked and I had some spillage, but don`t know how much.
So my numbers are off.
BCS APA.xls
I did a 14l mash, Did a sparge with top water and topped up to the volume int the boil (16.14l)
End of boil was around 9l. evaporation rate was out. Will turning the gas down a bit, slow the evaporation rate.
had the gas cranked up to max.

Mash volume 14l
S.G. before boil 1.042
VIF 9L
S.G after boil 1.062 (9L) Topped fermentor up to 10L S.G 1.060. and left it at that.

I want to brew this again, and try to get the numbers right.
Can you point me into the right direction.
Cheers.
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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by PistolPatch » 6 months ago

That's great you dived in Clackers :salute: Congratulations :champ:

Some brewers fret about numbers before diving in and others dive in without a basic knowledge of numbers. These are the two sides of Number Respect and Disrespect - you need the balance.

You dived in Clackers but you also ask for help in getting the numbers right. This is excellent because it gives me an excuse to write a lot which is something I haven't had time to do here in a long while :P. Here you go...

Chasing Numbers

I haven't written the following for a while so it's probably due for a repeat... "Brewers who say they hit their numbers dead on every time are fooling themselves. It's just not possible." I'm not blaming or criticising them as it's completely understandable. I chased the numbers spat out by traditional brewing software for several years, each brew saying, "I probably would have got the predicted 75% 'brewhouse' efficiency, if I had remembered to measure that or adjusted for this." After many brews though I realised the numbers didn't add up. Now, a few billion man hours later, we know a lot more and, via the BIABacus, have a far more accurate way of estimating numbers.

Even with that new tool, it's still hard for home brewers (mainly because of what they read everywhere), to understand that hitting numbers is not realistic. Even large commercial breweries cannot do it without blending and adjustments. Think about that... they get a lot more info on their ingredients and have a lot more control over their processes. If they can't do it, how can a home brewer expect to?

There are many logical reasons (some quite obvious when we stop and think about it) as to why you can't hit numbers on every brew. Here's three quick ones: "sugar" content in malted grains varies from batch to batch (commercial brewers get those specs, we don't); water changes daily for most home brewers; and no one can predict evaporation for any one brew day.

versus Using Numbers

What we can do as home brewers is pre-determine the content of ingredients in, design our brew day so that pre-pitching, we are in a position where we can correct, via dilution, to end up with the strength of wort we desire. The BIABacus does this for us.

So, Clackers, what I'm going to do for the rest of this post is make a few corrections to your BIABacus and then add a few notes...

Before I do that, just quickly, quite a nice job on your BIABacus and, I can't emphasise enough, how hard 'batch sizes' like yours are to measure and brew. 'Normal size' batches of 23L VIF are hard enough!

Section C: You don't need the second 1.056 on the right.
Section D: Only fill in one of the first two lines. (Delete your 40 and see how the grams change on the right?) Use the first line in prefernce to the second.
Section W: Because you can't comfortably fit all your water into the mash, you should decide on how much you'll hold back and then type that into the appropriate fields of Section W.

Now some notes...

1. You mention that you topped up your kettle to 16.14L. That's chasing the numbers. (Won't go into it now but that can bite you.)
2. Evaporation rate being high (or EIK: basically VIB x GIB being high) is good because you can dilute. I'd like to see the variance between predicted evaporation a bit less though unless you were brewing outdoors on a very hot, dry day. Just keep your eye on that over a few brews and then over-ride the BIABacus default a bit if need be. Only over-ride it though to the point that you think reflects a cold, humid, calm day.
3. Always double-check your gravity and volume after the boil. (I can't see a recordings in Section M of GAW). When you do this, look at Section P and see if EIB and EAW are within 5%. If so, you can be confident to go ahead with your pre-pitching dilution. Remember, single readings at our scale of brewing are not that accurate.

4. The straining into the fermenter is something I understand on the batch size you are doing but, next time, don't strain. Chill your wort in your sink/tub and let it settle. Then just pour it slowly into your fermenter. Trying to filter it is going to cause you a lot of problems as you already found :). (I've written on the "physics" of why it is a problem somewhere on this site.)

I think that's it?

Once again, congrats Clackers :clap:
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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by Clackers » 6 months ago

Thanks PP for the feedback. I am so much looking forward to getting this bottled, conditioned and over my taste buds.
There is still a lot I don't understand about the Biabacus, I might be a slow learner.

You said

"Section D: Only fill in one of the first two lines. (Delete your 40 and see how the grams change on the right?) Use the first line in prefernce to the second."

The first line
I`m copying the recipe from an external source. The original recipe`s volume of ambient wort (VAW) was 21.82
I got this number on this site, in the thread about converting BCS recipes.

You said to only fill in one line, the first one in preference to the second. But if I wanted 40IBU`s was I right to change the second to override it?
I was after a bit more bitterness. Should have written that in the notes.

You told me to fill out section W, "you should decide on how much you'll hold back and then type that into the appropriate fields of Section W."
I find this section hard to understand. I think I understand that water used for the sparge and water added before boil, as they make up the VIB. Yeah?
But what about water added to the fermentor? This being way after the mash and after the boil. Why does this affect the water held back from the mash?

And lastly you also mentioned that a high evaporation rate was ok as you can dilute to the desired gravity.
In this brew I topped up to 10lt in the fermentor as my VIF was low, but my gravity was high. after top up it was 1.060
Should I have topped up more until the gravity read the desired 1.056? I thought about doing this and thought extra beer, not a bad thing.
But then I had no real idea how it would affect the beer. Bring the bitterness to far down, or make the beer watery? So I left it at 1.060.
stronger beer, good or bad, could go either way. But I didn`t want watery beer.

Cheers.
Ho(a)ppy brewer.


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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by PistolPatch » 6 months ago

Cheers Clackers and, you're not a slow learner, some things are hard to understand initially.

Section D: If you wanted to try and duplicate the recipe as best as possible, then you would just fill in the first line. In your recipe, it estimates 35.6 Tinseth IBU's. You stated that you wanted to increase the bitterness of the original recipe so you typed in 40 on the second line. That is correct :thumbs:

Section W versus Section N

The main purpose of Section W is for those brewers who cannot full-volume brew because their kettle is too small. Think of Section W as being what you plan to do and will do on brew day. You are good on your thinking when you question, in Section W, 'Water Added to Fermenter." Pre-planning adding water to the fermenter is not desirable as it almost certainly means you are stretching your kettle to or even beyond its limits. If, however, you did take that undesirable route, then that water has to be subtracted from the mash otherwise you would end up with watery wort as you would be using too much water at the start of the brewing process.

Section N is about the "reality" of the brew. It's there because gravity and volume of our sweet liquor is unknown until we actually make it. (We can estimate volume and gravity before-hand but we can't know it as evaporation, water, grain specs etc vary from brew to brew.) Here's a pic of a spreadsheet I'll attach....
Volume and Gravity Outcomes.jpg

This shows some examples of possible outcomes from a brew day. And, it hopefully shows the problems that can result if a brewer uses software to try and get exact outcomes; they'll end up being in a bad situation (red) as often as they end up in a good situation (green). We've set various BIABacus defaults to ensure that the brewer is highly likely to end up in a green situation and this is what happened to you.

What to do when "in the green" (where you should be)

You asked, "Should I have topped up more until the gravity read the desired 1.056? I thought about doing this and thought extra beer, not a bad thing.
But then I had no real idea how it would affect the beer. Bring the bitterness to far down, or make the beer watery? So I left it at 1.060."

I think you made the right decision here but maybe not for the reasons you think.

When we are in the green, we are basically in a situation where our Gravity of Ambient Wort is either spot on or higher than our desired Original Gravity. If it's spot on, then nothing needs to be done of course. If it's higher (the more likely scenario if your brew plan is sensible/safe), then you need to add extra water (make sure it is "clean" water) to your fermenter.

When adding this extra water, it's not bitterness etc, that you should worry about; that's just like you putting one teaspoon of instant coffee and two teaspoons of sugar into half a cup of coffee. Taste that and then top the cup of coffee up with plain water, the essential balance doesn't change. (You'll see that in the B/G Ratio in Section O of the BIABacus).*

*[NOTE: I'm not sure if your file is corrupted or if it is a LibreOffice problem but you'll have to type in zero on the first line of Section N on your file to get Section O to fill correctly. Just had more of a fiddle and it seemed to correct itself so not sure?]

What is important when diluting, given our current limited knowledge, is not to go to extremes. In your case, a small size batch, you had  @ 1.062 and added  which made your wort then read 1.060. Two things to note here:

1. This shows the importance of really double-checking your gravity before dilution. In your case, if the wort was  @ 1.062 and you did dilute with  then your new gravity should have been 1.055/8 (round that to 1.056).

2. I like that you didn't exceed diluting the wort too much. 90% of what you pitched was pure sweet liquor. I don't like diluting more than that but I will go down to 80% on some styles if needs be. It's a question of judgement with style, top-up water quality and bravery all playing a role. I say bravery because there really isn't any quality information around on dilution.

Let me know if that helps Clackers and, let us know how it all turns out!

:salute:
PP
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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by Clackers » 6 months ago

Thanks for the reply/ info PP.

I have been busy reading some of those links you list on jamato`s thread. lots of stuff to take in. Havn`t finished read yet though.
I do have a question though, about sparging. On Jamato`s thread you recommended not to sparge and I get the washing mechine thing.
I was just wondering in my case when I held water back from the mash, I then sparged to make up the extra water. Is sparging not required?
This extra sparge water would contribute to my OG being higher predicted.

cheers.


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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by PistolPatch » 6 months ago

I'll add my answers below. [What I've written below is hard stuff to understand so don't be worried if you don't get it. I imagine it could take an hour or more of study to "get" the below. Also, it is much easier to understand if you play around with Section W and see how Sections C (right-hand side total), Section K, Section M and P change when you type numbers into Section W.]

Re: "On Jamato`s thread you recommended not to sparge..." - Only if you can fit all the water for the brew in your mash because your kettle isn't big enough. If you can't, you have two choices, use the water you can't fit in the mash to sparge or just top up the boil (or a combo of these). Whatever choice you make though, you must make it before you start the brew day and type the amounts into Section W as it affects other things.

Re: "...in my case when I held water back from the mash, I then sparged to make up the extra water. Is sparging not required?" - Just looking at your spreadsheet in more detail. What happened is, even though you could have, you didn't use all your water in the mash and you obviously made a conscious decision to do that which is fine as it meant your mash volume wasn't too close to your kettle limits. Therefore, let's say you chose to hold back 3 L from the mash and then used that to sparge. You should have typed that into the second line of Section W. That way...

1. The BIABacus would have told you what mash volume to expect.
2. And, all you'd have to do would be sparge with 3 L.
3. It would also throw you warnings if holding back that much water would cause a problem.

(Note that to save the mucking around with sparging, you could have just topped the boil up with the 3L. If you had typed that into Section W 'Water added before the boil,' the BIABacus would have: given you warnings if your decision was likely to cause problems; told you to use 2,691 grams of grain instead of 2,561 grams; told you the mash volume to expect and all you would have to do is add that 3L to the boil - no mucking around with sparging.

By not putting that 3L into Section W before you brewed is that you were forced into a position where you had to sparge until either you reached you reached the Volume into Boil of 16.14 L or topped up until your Gravity into Boil was 1.040. This is a problem for quite a few reasons: it's bloody hard to measure "hot" volumes accurately; it's bloody hard to measure "hot" gravity accurately and quickly; and, possibly, you would be more likely to end up in a "red" situation, rather than "green" pre-pitching.

Re: "This extra sparge water would contribute to my OG being higher predicted." - Not really and this is another reason to fill out Section W before your brewing as it makes things easier to follow. In your case, as mentioned above, you had to top up because you hadn't used all your water to begin with. We don't know your actual "pre-sparging" numbers but here is a likely scenario....

Prior to Sparging (with say 3 L): Your volume might have been say 13.1L and your gravity might have been 1.050 (about 83.4% EIB)
After Sparging (with 3 L): Your volume would be 16.8L and your gravity 1.042 (about 85.7% EIB)

Here is what to note...

1. Your gravity has actually gone down but, of course, your volume has gone up.
2. Your "sugar points" have increased a bit. (13.1 x 50 = 655 whereas 16.8 x 42 = 706).

"Sugar Points" reflect your efficiency ("efficiency into boil" in this case). If I did some maths on the above, based on your grain bill (and also experience), it would translate to 83.4% EIB before sparging and 85.7% EIB after sparging. The reason for this increase is because that extra water means the grain could be washed a little better.

But, but, but!!! If you had simply put all the water in to begin with, you still would have scored the 83.4%. So, it's not the sparging that makes a difference, it is the amount of water that touches the grain.

As I probably mentioned somewhere in this thread, the BIABacus is designed to default so as you end up with a bit higher kettle efficiency (eg efficiency into boil) than estimated so you end up in a "green" position. For example, if you had just added the 3 L to the boil (not sparged it) you would have ended up with...

16.1 L @ 1.040/6 SG (16.1 * 40.6 = 655)

You might think, "Great! That's the 'correct' Volume into Boil" and the gravity is a bit higher than I need - 1.040/6 versus 1.040/0 but, if you were brewing on a calm, still humid day, at the end of the boil you might, at the end of the boil, end up with 12.3 L @ 1.053/3 (655 / 12.3 = 53.3) whereas your desired OG is 1.056/0.

If, however, you had put 3L into Section W under 'Water added before the boil' you wouldn't be in that spot as the BIABacus would have asked you to use a bit more grain to begin with (the 2691 versus 2561 grams I mentioned above) and you would have ended up with 1.056. (In reality, the BIABacus, actually aims for you to end up having to dilute a bit to get the desired OG and ending up with a bit more 'Volume of Ambient Wort' than estimated).

....

I usually only write that much when I'm having a beer! I have to head off to work now :)
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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by Clackers » 5 months ago

Thanks PP.

You are right it`s a bit hard to get my head around all of it, but until you start talking about sugar points and math I
think I`m good. I assumed the water held back from mash or sect. W was to be inputted after to help with calculating
subsequent brews. Now I know that important bit of info. I am gonna postpone my next planned brew. (Export expat from BCS).
And do this same brew again and see how I go a second time. The sample tastes great, can tell its far better than anything I have produced in the
past.

I washed and harvested the yeast (first time) went well, I think. I don't have a stir plate or anything. So two large jars with a swirl a few times a
day. Maybe I shouldn`t do this, and open another can of worms.

Bottling this one today.

Thanks for all your help PP.


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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by PistolPatch » 5 months ago

Clackers wrote:
<span title="22 May 2017, 09:29">5 months ago</span>
...I washed and harvested the yeast (first time) went well, I think. I don't have a stir plate or anything...
Good on you Clackers :peace:

Okay, with yeast washing, that is another area that isn't really well defined in both terminology or method. Probably a few more things now I think on it? It actually probably needs a whole new thread. For example, there is acid washing and just washing. Then, if we narrow that down to just washing, what is the method? And then, if we go further, what yeasts can be successfully washed?

Sorry Clackers, I'm just flat out of time atm. I think, but am not entirely sure, I may have written here on how I have washed one type of yeast before for well over a year. There is also another thing I'm certain I have written on this here but can't think of a "keyword" to search for; it's a small thing, but, if true, a critical thing - something I have only ever heard from one person so it may be total garbage. From memory, he said that some commercial yeasts were blends of two or more yeasts so, if you washed them, the more vigorous yeast would drown out the other/s....

Yep, that was it.

His comment struck me as a logical refutation (or explanation) of why we hear of "yeast" mutating after generation/s.

Definitely made sense to me. I know who told me this so will chase them up on it.

Until then, post what you are washing and how you are washing it so as we know you have the procedure right. (One critical thing is time between your brews) :peace:
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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by ShorePoints » 5 months ago

Clackers,

PP is correct in that many commercial brews are made from two or more yeasts.

I sense a rabbit hole here. Yeast collecting, washing and propagation is a world unto its own. It can be divided and subdivided into too many categories. :dunno:
A member of my LHBC harvested solids from the bottom of a can of Heady Topper and, using a microscope, identified two different yeasts. He made a rough estimate as to relative population amounts, but could not be sure what it meant due to flocculation unknowns. Then he used some lab tricks to separate the yeasts and grew each separately. One was much more robust than the other. After days and days of effort he had to decide which one was first in order of addition to wort, then how long before adding the second, temperatures for each time period, and more. At some point, it becomes easier to drive to Vermont to buy the beer.
As for the “more vigorous yeast drowning out the other(s),” it was not me who brought this up earlier. See http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 4/abstract and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC203249/ for just two papers that say it happens. The second abstract indicates that sugar concentration and air also play a role in which yeast wins.
I know from my sourdough bread starters that the yeast changes over time. In my experience, the local airborne yeast will win in about a year. The bread is still good, but different.


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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by Clackers » 5 months ago

Oh my lord what have I started? you two are just scaring me now.

You might berate me for this, but what I did was, watch a few youtube vids. And the ones that were consistent with each
other and the ones that seemed to know what they were on about were the ones I tried to copy.

Why liquid is expensive and I had the trub from my last batch.

What yeast white labs California ale yeast WLP001

The how. Boiled around 2 litres of water let it cool to room temp. dumped into fermentor, mixed well and poured of into as many
jars as it filled. waited for the layers to separate. Then poured off into other jars. Balls it up though.
I got called away and when I came back and poured it off, probably too much time had past and I suspect most of the
yeast had settled? Then had to leave, I do all this at my work place, had no time left. Anyway I now have three jars in my fridge with around .8cm of sediment and clear/ beer like liquid on top.
I was just going to see if a healthy yeast starter would develop if it did I was gonna try and use it.
I am only doing a 10l batch so don't need a lot, This is a (potential) problem. I don`t have the knowledge or means of measuring how
much yeast I have. But If the starter looks dodgy I will
just go with US-05 yeast.

I am going to brew the same brew I did before. But Not without re-calibrating my water levels in my pot. I bought a new measuring jug 5lt
with all the lines. and I am getting some new scales the ones I used last time were borrowed, and after my last brew I checked it by weighing
the same thing ten times and I didn't get the same results ten times. So my grain bill might have been a tad heavy. never thought to check it first.
I am also going to measure my grain bill tie it up in a plastic bag air removed. and see how much mash water I can actually get in my pot.
Instead of holding too much water back from the mash.

What I do find interesting though, you mention about yeasts containing different strains, and one might be stronger than the other.
I`ve read a bit about the use of liquid yeast. And they are not cheap so it seems many people make a yeast starter to increase the amount of healthy yeast. If they contain a mixed yeast strain then making a yeast starter might change the characteristics of the yeast being used.
If one is stronger. possible/ not likely?

PP/ Shorepoints, thanks for your replies.
YouTube makes it look easy, but I know there is a lot more to it. Not kidding myself.
Only one biab under my belt. Might be a little....(can`t think of the work).........of me to try this.
PP. I realize you are quite busy and its cool if you save this one for another day in another thread for everyone.

Marcus.
Last edited by Clackers on 25 May 2017, 09:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by ShorePoints » 5 months ago

Marcus - no intent to scare you at all. What you have done will work, even with interruptions. Keep going.
Experimenting is part of the learning process. You get some advice on what to do and give it a try. If you let us know how it turns out in the beer, that would be great. I'd be interested in trying what you report on that one kind of commercial yeast.
Point of clarification, when you said, "2 litres of water let it cool to room temp. dumped into fermentor," you meant that you had removed the beer from the fermenter and had pale tan solids (mostly yeast) on the bottom of the fermenter, right? The fresh 2 litres of water then slurried was what you subdivided into several jars for settling/washing. That makes sense.
Keep it up! :thumbs:


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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by Clackers » 5 months ago

Ha ha... yeah thats exactly what I did. Beer was taken out for CC`ing. Then did the yeast thing. Made the starter this afternoon actually and brewing
my second batch on Monday.

Bottled it on monday (19th may) I got 8920ml into packaging the target was 10lt. I had some spillages and wastages etc. but am happy with the results.

I have done so many new things with this brew I have never done before.

AG brew
CC
yeast harvesting
Yeast starter

I was trying to explain to my wife about yeast harvesting / starters and saving money. she took out ¥5,000 and said just go to
the bottle "O".


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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by Jamato » 5 months ago

Clackers wrote:
<span title="26 May 2017, 19:22">5 months ago</span>


I have done so many new things with this brew I have never done before.

AG brew
CC
yeast harvesting
Yeast starter
I have found the more I do the better the beer. A lot of guys try to cut corners, I try to make a great beer, so learning how to do these steps help me make a better beer.
Glad the beer came out great. This is such a fun hobby to have as there is always something to learn.
Temperance is for those who cannot hold their liquor :drink: :drink:


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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by Clackers » 5 months ago

Yeah, your not wrong. I have bottled beer left over from a kit. a lot of it is currently being given away to family to try
before I give them some from my first AG biab. They love the kit beer.
My second Batch is on its way now with harvested yeast, so I must have done an ok job.
My first batch will have been in bottles two weeks this coming Friday, Gonna crack one see what its like a little young.
then leave the rest two more weeks and see if I can taste the difference. If Its as good as I think though it might not last
an extra two weeks. (10lt batch)


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Clackers
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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by Clackers » 5 months ago

Well, Time to sample and drink my first BIAB AG has come and gone.

Just finished work, put the ICC Champions Trophy on (cricket on the pc) got my chilled class out and bottle out of the
fridge. I sit down, cant find my opener "f%&K" run up stairs to get another. Pop the top off, excited now.
Smell is good, pours well nice head that didn't dissipate. First taste.....WaHHH BITTER. Not crazy bitter.
It was still very good, just had a bit more bite than I expected. I buggered my hop additions up, I knew that. But still a very nice
drop, especially after the second bottle. :drink: :drink: :thumbs:

Question my volume was short into the fermenter, would this concentrate the bitterness?
Also when I did my checking for FG, and drank the sample I thought it tasted shit hot, and didn't notice the
bitterness. But once carbonated, and out of a bottle I thought oh that's bitter. Is that my imagination?

My yeast harvesting seemed to go well. Got my second batch down and the yeast fired up like a gem.
It seemed to be a bit more vigorous second time round. ?? I used a different yeast nutrient? + a slightly warmer fermenting temp. 20.5 Average.
First one was brewed at right on 19C.

My second brew.
I tried to push the limit of my kettle and got 17l into the mash as opposed to 14l + sparge with my first.
All went well. My VIB was spot on as was my gravity before boil. My evaporation seems way off though. very high.
The vigor of the boil is...well VIGOROUS. Might try turning the gas down and go with a good rolling boil. Instead of gas on full.
Stove top (gas) more power than needed maybe. I harvested this yeast too. Gonna try a third brew with it...and drink all three brews
in a sitting. just to see if there are any big differences I might tell from the yeast. (plus the price of the yeast) Then the next one I`ll try
US-05.

BIAB is cool. :salute:

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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by Mad_Scientist » 5 months ago

Are you a BIABacus user? If so, post it up here. Include your actuals, then we can begin to answer your bitterness question and you will have a nice visual as to why.


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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by PistolPatch » 5 months ago

Good stuff Clacks :peace:

Glad to read the yeast harvesting is going well. Main thing is to always smell the harvested yeast before pitching and, if there is a bit of water above the harvested yeast, pour a bit off and taste it. Those two things will protect you from pitching harvested yeast that has gone bad.
Clackers wrote:
<span title="07 Jun 2017, 07:59">5 months ago</span>
Question my volume was short into the fermenter, would this concentrate the bitterness?
Yes and No.

Before I get to explaining the yes and no answer, just a quick clarification... the critical volume is your Volume of Ambient Wort (Volume at Flame-Out once cooled), not your Volume into Fermenter. Assuming no dilutions or other pre-pitching corrections, nothing changes in the composition of the wort between VAW and VIF.

I'm going to assume that you did mean VAW instead of VIF. In other words, your evaporation rate was higher than anticipated so you ended up with less VAW (and therefore, most likely, less VIF too) than estimated. The other thing I'm going to assume is that you ended up with a higher OG than expected. (We don't know this though and that is why Mad_Scientist suggested posting up your BIABacus with actual numbers.)

Assuming the above, you'll have ended up with a more concentrated wort than you expected. This is generally what you want as this allows you to use some "nice" water to dilute that wort to the correct gravity before you pitch. Once again, I'm assuming that you didn't dilute and this would mean...

Yes - The Beer Will Be More Bitter
No - The Beer Will Not Be More Bitter

What? :scratch: :think: :? :dunno:

What I'm saying here is that, if you measured the IBU's of the beer in a laboratory, yes, it would be more bitter but, in reality, the perceived IBU's (what you taste) won't be.

Look at it this way... Make two mugs of coffee. Put 1 teaspoon of coffee and one teaspoon of sugar in both mugs. Fill one up but only half fill the other. The half full one will be more sugary but it also will be more bitter - the balance hasn't really changed, everything is just more concentrated.

It's the same with your beer. Yes, your bitterness has gone up but so have all the other things (alcohol, sweetness, flavour etc).

The trick is to plan your brew so as you always end up a bit more concentrated than you want (the auto-defaults in the BIABacus do this) and then use "nice" water to dilute down to your desired OG which, in turn, also dilutes bitterness etc, etc.

....

Carbonation will accentuate bitterness initially (carbolic acid from CO2 and other factors) however, often the initial bitterness will then quickly subside a little.

:salute:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 07 Jun 2017, 22:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by Mad_Scientist » 5 months ago

I had a chance to get on a regular computer today. I re-read post #1 and pulled up your file. :) ... and your actuals are there. :)

Everything looks good there. After your dilution in the fermentor, looks like that brought you down to OG 1.060. Nice efficiencies. One thing that would increase the bitterness, as you said, is the 10 mins. hops additions went in at 60 mins..

That's all I can see, regarding that.

MS


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Clackers
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Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by Clackers » 5 months ago

Thanks PP and MS.

PP. I did taste and smell the water off the top of the yeast. seemed good so in it went and it did a good job. (fingers crossed)
thanks for the explaination on bitterness.

MS, Yeah I reckon the bitterness is from my hop additions, not worried about it as its still good. second batch went much better.

I will put up the files for both my brews though (over the weekend). I think I need to get my evaporation
under control. Both brews were short with the VIF.

Cheers.
Last edited by Clackers on 09 Jun 2017, 20:09, edited 1 time in total.


Topic author
Clackers
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Location: Japan
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Preferred Brewing Method: Undecided
City: Tottori

Re: First Biab, was fun, but had a few hitches

Post by Clackers » 2 months ago

Don`t how many of you guys have read this thread, (its worth reading) but I`ve been yeast harvesting because well liquid yeast is pricey.
Anyway this is just a follow on. I have now harvest the yeast three times and each beer I thought was perfectly fine, and wouldn`t hesitate
in doing three times with the one type of yeast. BUT I am still very much a novice, and I brewed the same beer- each time
I make tweaks to my methods and equipment. And my taste buds are probably not as tuned as my brain, which just says AHH beer.
So someone with more experience might easily notice something off or different. I didn`t.

My 2cents.. If you used a liquid yeast and like me on a budget, by all means go ahead and harvest your yeast. You wont be disappointed,
unless you get an infection that is. I didn't. follow cleanliness and common sense and you cant go wrong.

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