Hobgoblin Clone - Brew Swap (UK)

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Post by Yeasty » 3 years ago

Haven't managed to get down to it this weekend guys as I have had to sort work stuff out all weekend. Will do it during the week.

:salute:

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Post by mally » 3 years ago

Me neither;

Will let you know ASAP.
G B
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I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
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Post by mally » 3 years ago

Well I got around to the taste test yesterday (Saturday 12th July).
hg challenge.jpg
The picture is a little misleading as the sunlight is making the centre ones look lighter than the outer ones.
All had very good colour match.
All had good aroma.
All had poor head & foam retention (lacing too). Even the Wychwood HG was poor, and these were with brand new glasses I bought for the test and washed & rinsed well before use.

I am amazed how different the tastes were on all of them though. If you think we (should have) used the exact same ingredients and process, and the only difference was the yeast (& fermentation I guess). :dunno:

I tasted these with my father whom had no idea which was which, and his comments were useful too. He said if he had paid for any of these at a pub he wouldn't have known they weren't Hobgoblin.
He also said they were very drinkable. I will be brutally honest with Adman though, he said he would have sent this back as he thought it was off, but this was purely due to the low carbonation level. I think you said on your previous post how much difference carbonation & temperature can make. I would like to knnow how this compares if carbonated more, so let us know how that goes please?

When I pushed him to choose favourites (so this is purely a personal choice) he picked Yettiman's first, then Yeasty & mine were about the same, and Admans next.
The one thing I would comment on is I did think mine & yeastys were the most similar, and when I compared them to the Wychwood I was actually thinking I should compare them to Tim Taylor Landlord!

My conclusion is that none of them tasted like the bottle of Hobgoblin (not sure about the cask version though)?
I thought all of ours had more hop presence and muted malt notes. The Wychwood has no hop presence to me but intense caramel & toffee.

Finally, the golden retriever liked all of the dregs, no complaints from the family pet!
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Last edited by mally on 13 Jul 2014, 14:54, edited 1 time in total.
G B
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I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life


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Post by Yettiman » 3 years ago

Great reviews guys,

I have sneaked a couple of mine (just to test - honest), but will be doing the full review this week.

How do I post photos by the way?

Thank you guys will update you soon

Yettiman

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Post by mally » 3 years ago

Looks like its jut me & you Tony, Andy & Adam have buggered off! :argh:

To post a picture you need to reply to the post. Then if you look below where you type your text you will see an area called "upload attachment".
under "filename" click the "browse" button. Navigate to where the file is stored on your PC. Select it then click "open".
The filename will now appear next to the browse button.
Below this is a "file comment" box which you can type in to add text/description of your picture etc.
To the left of this is a box "add the file", click on this and the file will be uploaded to the BIABrewer server (nearly finished now)! :shock:

You should see the file has been added to the list below where you just typed. You should also see in the "attachments" line directly below your main text the file you just added with a button "place inline"

Navigate back to your main text, and click the place inline button where you want the picture to be located (beginning/end/between text) etc.

Click on preview button to ensure you have correctly detailed what you want, then either correct or submit.
:luck:
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life


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Post by Homemade » 3 years ago

Hello guys,

I've been watching this thread with interest....god the suspense of what they all taste like is killing me!

I noticed Mally says they all had more hop profile than the original, that is the same result I have had.

I am wondering if any or all of you treated your water or at least do any of you know what your water profile is?

Cheers

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Post by mally » 3 years ago

I take it you have done your own Hobgoblin then Homemade?

For me I always tend to treat the water the same. I have alkalinity of about 85, and I bring it down to 30(ish) with carbonate reducing solution.
This is the preferred range for doing lager style beers. I do this because I do not add the crystal/speciality grains until near the end of mash, so for the majority of the mash I have just pale malt in there.
For good measure I also add a pinch of Calcium Chloride, and Gypsum (but this is because I have quite low mineral content).

I used to do nothing to treat the water, and I can't honestly say I have seen a huge improvement since, but I still do it anyway because I can!
G B
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I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life


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Post by Homemade » 3 years ago

Hi Mally,

Yes I have tried brewing this 3 times, I have not got it right yet so I have decided to take it on as a bit of a general brewing learning exercise. I do appreciate there are always going to be differences for a variety of reasons so I am not expecting to end up with something EXACTLY the same but I figure I should be able to get closer than I am now.

I am using this recipe as the commercial example is readily available for comparison and the boys on CYBI say this recipe comes very close to cloning it (and I trust them) and therefore it seems to me the only real reason mine isn't the same is probably down to something on my side.

My basic problems have been cloudy and overhopped 'considerably'. I am not concerned about the cloudyness at this point, I really want to get the hop prescence down. Obviously I am interested to learn how you all got on as you were all using the same recipe. If you all get closer it further suggests to me that it is something I am doing that is the problem.

Obviously I could reduce the hops but this hop bill is what CYBI used so it seems wrong to me that it could be the hop bill completely.

When I say mine is overhopped I do mean overhopped. I agree with you the original is very low on hops and quite malty, mine is more like an IPA. Very pronounced hop flavour and aroma, not unpleasantly bitter just alot of hop flavour. In fact I quite like it as an IPA but I really want to work out why it is so hoppy.

I did not follow the technique fully on the first brew, I didn't add the bittering hops at 80C and I didn't add the finishing hops in a whirlpool, I also no chilled. I also could not get the exact hops once. So I changed these elements on the last attempt and again it was a very nice IPA.

I have been investigating water recently and I am wondering if that might be something to do with it. Our water is very very soft, its been a while since I tested it (to put in my SPA) but I think the alkalinity and calcium were both non existent. I am quite new to all grain and I have not yet tested the water for brewing and I have not checked the pH of the mash yet either.

We have brewed a range of beers from Pils to Doppelbock and the Pils are very very good but the darker stuff isn't so. From what I have read that fits (broadly) into the theory that soft water is better for light beers and not so good for dark ones.

That was a long way of getting around to saying that is why I asked about the water you guys used, I was thinking of treating the water for my next brew to see what effect it has. I recently listened to John Palmers experiment where they brewed a Pale Ale and Stout using water optimised for those beers then brewed each again with water that wasn't optimal for them and they got very different results. Broadly speaking I think they showed that optimal water made a difference, although the result with sub optimal water wasn't bad in itself just not as good.

So I am thinking the water might help and if not then at least I get to learn a bit about water along the way.

If I get the same result I think I will just reduce the whirlpool hops(lol).

Cheers




then I What I am doing it changing something each time

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Post by mally » 3 years ago

I really like your perseverance Homemade!
I can't say whether it will make a difference but I guess you may be trying it out anyway?

IMHO, I don't think the water in our experiment would account for the taste differences that I noticed. I put it all down to the yeast & fermentation profile.
In fact I have been listening to a few of the Jamil podcasts about cloning Fullers ales (London Pride, 1845) etc.
Interestingly they did the same brew on 2 seperate occasions (the 1st one was not a clone). On the 2nd occasion they followed the Fullers schedule for fermentation and this came out as an exact clone.

The difference doesnt sound like much, which was why it was ignored the 1st time, but after trying it they put it all down to the fermentation schedule.

I may have this wrong (from memory) but the difference between them was #1 was fermented as normal (around 22C) fully.
#2 was piched at 18C allowed to rise to 20C naturally. At 50% attenuation the wort is cooled to 17C, then at around 90% attenuation it is gradually chilled to 4C (1C/Hour), then cooled further to -1C, where it is conditioned for a week.

To me this is NOT the same but a similar way to lagers & lagering, and it apparently made the difference? :scratch:

I don't know what yeast you are using, but that coupled with not knowing Wychwoods fermenation schedule could be all that is needed to make the difference?

As for CYBI saying it was a clone, that has me stumped!
Unless they have different Hobgoblin in the U.S.A. to other places? I know the draught version is very different to bottled.
Last edited by mally on 26 Jul 2014, 16:39, edited 1 time in total.
G B
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I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life


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Post by Homemade » 3 years ago

Thks again Mally

I hear what you say regarding ferment schedule and yeast.

I am using the exact yeast they recommend in the podcast WLP023 Burton Ale and on this third attempt I followed the brew and ferment schedule 'almost' to the letter. I think I messed up and increased my ferment temp a day slower than was recommended in the podcast.

I also added the bittering hops at 80c as the brewer said (I actually took them out after an hour rather than at the end of the boil as well) and whirlpooled the final addition for 15 minutes. I use paint straining bags as a hop bag. Different bags for each addition. I then crashed chilled in a ice bath.

On the plus side at least it is coming out the same each time so I am doing something right!

I have just poured over your spreadsheet versus the three I have done and can't see anything obvious I am doing wrong.

Just to get a feel I grossed up/down your hop schedule from your 23L VIF. The first time I brewed 50L then two batches of 10L VIF's. I know this is not going to be strictly accurate due to things like AA of actual hops used etc but the qty of hops came out almost identical, I think only 5 grams difference for the total amount for the 50L batch so I dont think it is the quantity of hops I am using either.

Mine comes out very cloudy and very very hoppy....It seems to me it has to be my process or my water or something else I am not considering.

I can't think of anything glaringly obvious in my process so I am looking for answers elsewhere.

From your tasting notes it doesn't sound like any of the UK clone attempts came out anything like mine so I am sure it has to be something I am doing or not doing correctly etc.

Like I said I think I will play with the water for the next attempt and see/taste for myself what difference that makes. If nothing else I will learn something.

Thanks again for your interest.

cheers


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Post by Yettiman » 3 years ago

Sorry guys, had some family issues, so have not been on recently, give me a couple of days and I should be back to normal (whatever that means)

I am still very much interested in thus thread, just been away for a few (read many) days.

Thank you for the info Mally, on how to upload a picture, thank you

Back soon chaps


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Post by Yettiman » 3 years ago

Hi chaps,

Late as always,

Here are my results, I tried to be objective where possible, and the final "best of bunch" test was a blind tasting.

I appologise, but I am unsure who's is whom's, so it was a true blind taste

I named them as:

1) Original
2) Red Tape (Aardman?)
3) Ruby Ale (Yeasty?)
4) Elastic band (Malty?)
5) Yettiman

Ok, so I looked at:

Carbonation
Clarity
Taste
Colour
Closeness to original

Original, had a small head, that quickly dissipated (2-3 seconds).
Red tape, better head, (3-5 seconds), lighter in colour, clear, slightly light in both taste and mouth feel
Ruby ale, better head (3-5 seconds) crystal clear, perfect colour, nice mouth, slightly burnt taste
Elastic Band, better head (5-7 seconds, great colour), slightly light in colour, heavy mouth feel, taste good
Yettiman, best head (6-8 seconds, slightly too dark), perfect colour but cloudy, slightly sweet

In the blind taste the order of personal preference was:
1) Ruby ale (Yeasty)
2) Original
3) Yettiman
4) Red Tape (Aardman?)
3) Ruby Ale (Yeasty?)
5) Elastic band (Malty?)


But the differences were very very minor, all were nice pints, and very drinkable, even in this hot weather

Not sure if you can see in the pictures but I included them, just in case.

Here they are in reverse order
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Post by Adman1966 » 3 years ago

First I must apologise for my extended absence. A combination of problems with our middle son, some very long work days and a death in the family sidelined me for a while.

I now have time to write up the results of my first batch of tasting which I actually did quite a while ago! :blush:

I arranged a blind testing for my wife who frankly has a better palate than I do, so I knew which beer was which but she did not. We both tried the beers and I have to say that they were all good although mine was severely under carbonated (which didn't add much to the beer!).

The final positions relate to how close to the sample bottle of Hobgoblin the beer was (in our opinion).

Closest was....Yettiman. The comments were:-
Spot on colour. Good head. Close on aroma. Close on flavour and excellent mouthfeel.

Next was.... Mally. Comments.
Good colour. Okay head. Slightly weaker aroma. Close on flavour. Good mouthfeel.

Next was.... Yeasty. Comments.
Slightly lighter colour. Okay head. Weaker aroma. Slightly too bitter. Low carbonation.

Finally...me. :|
Slightly lighter colour. No head worth mentioning. "Perfumed" aroma. No depth of flavour. Very low carbonation.

As mentioned previously, mine out of the keg is properly carbonated and a much nicer drinking experience.

I realise from reading many, many posts from PP that this sample is much too small to draw any real conclusions from. Having said that, I prefer my usual version of a ruby ale based loosely around Hobgoblin to this one, even though this is closer to Hobgoblin! It is also my second least favourite beer that I have brewed. (The worst was a Boddingtons clone, what was I thinking?)

I still have the second taste test to do so we will see what difference time makes to this beer.

Until then, good job fellas, :clap: just don't copy mine! :sneak:

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Post by Yeasty » 3 years ago

Hi Guys,

Been a bit shit lately with too much work, family holidays to fit in and a shite internet connection that has took me 4-6 weeks to sort out. So sorry but I am still yet to line up a tasting session. Work seems to be tailing off so I should get on to it hopefully this weekend. I've just skim read the above as I don't want to be influenced too much :lol:

Cheers

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Post by Yettiman » 3 years ago

Hi Chaps,

Not been on much lately, I am in the middle OD selling my house and will be offline for a while,

I just wanted to say It has been great getting involved and a lot of fun.

I will be back but it may be a few months

Not sure when the house sale will go through but I think we are looking at end of October

Take care all

Tony


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Post by Adman1966 » 3 years ago

Hi Tony

Good luck with the move, I hear it can be quite stressful!! :shock:

We'll see you on the other side.

Adam

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Post by mally » 3 years ago

I'm not sure if this thread is now dead or not....

However, I think I only have a few bottles of mine left now. All the other "2nd" bottles have long gone too! :argh:

I really enjoyed the "experiment", should definitely do something like this again. :think:
Speckled Hen, London Pride, or a Bob Brews Black Bear IPA! Who's in? :lol:
G B
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I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life


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Post by Adman1966 » 3 years ago

I was only thinking about this earlier in the week, I still have the second tasting to do!

I'm up for this again along with a possible "Cheese brew", but we will need Bob and PP for that one!


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Post by windrider » 3 years ago

Loved this post guys :)

I've only started out recently but would be up for doing something like this next year. Think it's a great idea.

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Post by mally » 1 year ago

Mally the necromancer!
Yeasty wrote:Here is a linky to White labs Burton Ale Yeast

There are lots of reviews that make interesting reading.

I'm thinking of ordering a vial an making some slants, any of you guys into yeast propagation :?:

:shoot:

Yeasty
Yeasty wrote:
mally wrote:Oh... and the slant seemed good too. :salute:
GOOD :argh: you got the best of the batch Mally, some of the others looked dodgy but I think its where the condensation has washed yeast spores onto other parts of the slant. Don't worry though as I top cropped and have a sample to re slant with. :lol:

:luck:

Yeasty

Not related to the Hobgoblin, but just wanted to let you all know the slant that Yeasty sent which is getting on for nearly 2 years ago!
I am planning an English Mild in the coming weeks so thought I would see if this was still viable.
Answer = Yep :argh: Stepped up starters and it seems to be quite a beast.
Hoping to use this (WLP023), a Fullers propagation from Bengal Lancer, and S04 (never used before) to see the differences.
Last edited by mally on 18 Feb 2016, 19:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Yeasty » 1 year ago

:clap: :clap: :clap: :thumbs: Mally.

You might have to send me one back as I wouldn't like to say how viable my old slants are :think: :scratch: :dunno:

I must admit that I'm a tad embarrassed about this thread as I didn't really give it the attention it deserved. I'd hoped it would rekindle my love of brewing after a terrible 2013 but it has been a struggle. I've still got the beer fridge plugged running at the back of the shed with the HG clones still sat there :blush: I don't know why I didn't get around to drinking them :headhit: Its cost me a small fortune keeping that fridge going :lol:

Anyway !! I've made a promise to myself to get back on the brewing wagon and when I do I'll need the fridge as its got my STC connected to it so I will need it for fermenting in. When I do I'll drink the HG's and report back. At the very least it will be interesting to see how they've matured. :drink: :think: :thumbs:

Good luck with the yeast Mally :luck:

:salute:

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Post by Yettiman » 1 year ago

I have to say folks, I have a few left and cracked one open the other day. Not bad, not too bad at all.

Stored them in my cold store, so should have not been too many wild temp, variations, but still quite pleased.

I really enjoyed taking part, and I leaned a lot from the rest of the group.


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Re: Hobgoblin Clone - Brew Swap (UK)

Post by HomebrewJp » 5 months ago

So after reading through 8 pages.
Knowing how nice a BY tastes. I am now unsure who I should ask to PM me a BIABACUS recipe. As I too would love to try and clone a HG.


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Re: Hobgoblin Clone - Brew Swap (UK)

Post by Yettiman » 5 months ago

The recipe we all used is in the thread. This was apart from the fun of brewing, the main point.

We all used as much as we could, the same recipe.

I have just finished the last bottle, nearly 4 years old and still good 😀


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Re: Hobgoblin Clone - Brew Swap (UK)

Post by HomebrewJp » 5 months ago

Perfect

Thank you very much, i will be adding to my brew list.
Only four more to go, then its a HG clone.

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