Help cloning James Squire Sundown Australian Lager

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Help cloning James Squire Sundown Australian Lager

Post by Agdigger » 1 year ago

Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone has ever come across a clone recipe for James Squire Sundown Australian Lager? I absolutely love the beer but it appears it was only ever intended to be a limited release and there isn't any information about it on the current James Squire website. I've also scoured the Internet for a clone recipe but haven't had any luck.

Has anyone ever had a crack at creating a clone recipe for this beer?

Thanks All

Agdigger

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Post by PistolPatch » 1 year ago

Might have to try and gather bits and pieces of info and see what we can put together? I haven't tried it sorry.

We could start with the following info which comes from here.
This one-off, limited-production brew combines pale and carapils malts and a mix of Galaxy, Summer Saaz and East Kent Goldings hops. A lovely, rich maltiness underpins the flavour. But a modest 4.4 per cent alcohol and delicious, herbal, grassy hops counter the maltiness, giving it a refreshing, brisk lightness.
Also see if you can describe what you liked about the beer - flavours etc. I know that can be hard but see how you go ;). Google "beer flavours" (try Bing as well) and read some of the links that come up eg The 7 flavor categories of beer.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 20 Apr 2016, 11:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Agdigger » 1 year ago

Thanks very much Pistol! You've already managed to find more information than me.

I'm a bit of a flavour noob but I'll have a read through the material and have a go at describing the taste.

Thanks!


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Help cloning James Squire Sundown Australian Lager

Post by Agdigger » 1 year ago

OK. So the beer:

Definitely has a sweet citrus aftertaste that keeps me coming back for more.

Is moderately bitter.

Is crisp. I think I can taste the biscuit malt associated with Helles lagers.

I actually think this beer is hoppier than a lot of others have said.

That's about as far as my uneducated palate goes unfortunately :(


A seemingly more educated opinion:

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/494/46041/
Review based on notes taken during a recent trip to Sydney.

Poured into a wine glass. Glass of cold water on the side to sip from periodically. 

Appearance: As poured the beer is a bright clear golden straw color with a 1" head of white foam. The head recedes to a ring of foam and sipping leaves scattered speckles of lacing.

Smell: While not strong the aroma is filled with pleasant biscuity malt and hint of grassy hops

Taste: The flavors include some lightly sweet biscuity malt flavor with some earthy grassy hops present but not obtrusive.

Mouthfeel: The mouth feel is medium bodied with strong carbonation. The finish is on the short side and barely lets one know the hops are there.

Drinkability: This is a reasonably drinkable beer, but nothing really stands out about it, either good or bad. The best that can be said for it is that it is a thirst quencher and not an adjunct lager.
I'm not sure if this will make any more sense to the more educated beer recipe reverse engineer but I'm hoping it does!
Last edited by Agdigger on 23 Apr 2016, 19:49, edited 1 time in total.


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Help cloning James Squire Sundown Australian Lager

Post by Contrarian » 1 year ago

If I was going to have a crack at this I would start with a nice malty ale malt like Maris otter or gladfields ale. If I didn't have that I'd use about 20% Munich to add some maltiness.

So a general grain bill would be 93% ale, 7% carapils with a target OG of 1.045. If that ferments out to 1.011 it will be close to the ABV.

I would mash around 67C to give it some body but also hit the target final gravity.

Hops are harder to copy and without really detailed information it is almost impossible to guess.

As a stab in the dark and having tried this beer I would guess it wouldn't be much more than 25IBUs. As a starting point I would go with 10IBUs of EKG at 60 minutes. 5IBUs of both EKG and Saaz at 15 minutes and 5IBUs of galaxy at flame out.

That should give a nice beer even if it isn't the same and you can then adjust things to get a bit closer or adjust to personal taste.

For example if you want to make a drier beer mash at say 63C and reduce the OG down a bit to keep the ABV the same.

Cloning beers is incredibly difficult. We had a small comp in our local brew club and while everyone made great beers none were exactly the same. In fact, most were better in the opinion of the judges! So don't worry too much about getting it exactly the same and enjoy making good beer!


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Post by Agdigger » 1 year ago

Thanks Contrarian!! That does sound nice. I might just give that a go. I'm currently in Germany trying to drink every Wheat Beer known to mankind but I'll definitely give that a whirl when I return.

You sound like you really know your stuff. Out of curiosity, I've heard of some brews using actual Orange peel. Would the citrus taste for this beer cone from the EKG or some other adjunct?


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Post by PistolPatch » 1 year ago

I think you've done a great job at explaining the beer Agdigger :clap:.

And, Contrarian has given you a great start :salute:.

On your behalf, I'm going to ask Contrarian to clarify the later hop additions. (I can't remember if Contrarian uses the BIABacus??? If so, he might be able to whack up a quick file for you.)

The later additions need clarification, especially the flame-out addition, "5 IBU's of Galaxy". In brewing software, flame-out additions don't add any IBU's. It is possible that Contrarian meant HBU's which are a different thing.

He'll sort that out for you I'm sure ;),
PP

P.S. Citrus flavours will come from the EKG and Galaxy hops.
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Help cloning James Squire Sundown Australian Lager

Post by Contrarian » 1 year ago

I do use the biabacus so good pick up there PP. I tend to modify the timing in software of late additions to calculate some IBU contribution because in my experience, which is no chilling, they do add bitterness.

I'd normally put a flame out addition in as 10-15 minutes. Most of the time now I would just do 60 minute additions and flame out or whirlpool additions.

I normally post from my phone but if I get 10 minutes at a computer I'll throw something together.


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Help cloning James Squire Sundown Australian Lager

Post by Contrarian » 1 year ago

And on the citrus I would agree it is from the hops in this case but I have made a hoegharden clone that had orange zest in it, came up well for a kit and kilo!


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Post by Agdigger » 1 year ago

Wow thanks so much for the additional information Pistol and Contrarian! I'm still trying to wrap my head around it all and I'm very much learning through doing at the moment so thanks again!!


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Re: Help cloning James Squire Sundown Australian Lager

Post by Agdigger » 6 months ago

Hi again fellas,

I'm gearing up to have a crack at this and am looking for advice on yeast. Given that this is labelled as a lager I figured I should consider using a lager yeast and fermenting at 16c. It's a bit of a weird one because this straddles the ale and lager border.

Thanks in advance.

Agdigger


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Re: Help cloning James Squire Sundown Australian Lager

Post by PistolPatch » 6 months ago

Good question AR ;)

I still haven't tasted the beer but from what you are saying, I think you could definitely use Safale-K97 which is a dried yeast that I use for Kolsch's. Kolsch's can be fruity or dry. I like dry and I think you will want that too with this beer so you need to ferment low...

Pitch at 14°C and retain it to 15°C (it will want to get hotter after pitching) for say a week. After that, you could let it rise gradually to 17 or 18 °C and then bottle or crash-chill if kegging.

Contrarian might have better ideas as he's tasted the beer!

Also, if possible, post your recipe so as we can spot anything in your plan that might cause mischief :)
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Re: Help cloning James Squire Sundown Australian Lager

Post by Agdigger » 6 months ago

Thanks for the advice Pistol. I'll definitely post the recipe once I've punched it all into Biabicus. I'd love to have a crack at this on the weekend but I'm having a bunch of mates around for a homebrew consumption session! I spose that's not a bad way to spend a weekend...

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