BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

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Post by Wyoracer » 10 months ago

I use a printed out copy also for simplicity but would like to make changes and entries as I go if possible. WLP? Is it available on Mac? Thinking about buying MS office for Mac
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Post by LI Mike D » 10 months ago

Anyone else having an issue using the current version on Microsoft Excel for Mac v 15.15 on MacOS Sierra 10.12.1
Screen Shot 2016-11-06 at 5.04.24 PM.png
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Last edited by LI Mike D on 07 Nov 2016, 06:10, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by ShorePoints » 10 months ago

LI Mike D, is that directly from a downloaded empty file or a saved file on your Mac? Remember to always save the BIABacus files with the .xls extension on the filename every time from a working copy (especially on a Mac). I do not think adding the .xls to a messed up one without the .xls is trustworthy.

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Post by LI Mike D » 10 months ago

ShorePoints wrote:LI Mike D, is that directly from a downloaded empty file or a saved file on your Mac? Remember to always save the BIABacus files with the .xls extension on the filename every time from a working copy (especially on a Mac). I do not think adding the .xls to a messed up one without the .xls is trustworthy.

it's the downloaded empty file with the .xls extension. To work around it, I downloaded another file from the site and cleared out the entries to use as my boilerplate.
Last edited by LI Mike D on 07 Nov 2016, 21:57, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by HomebrewJp » 7 months ago

Good day guys.

I am hoping for a little assistance. :pray:
I am a first time BIABacus user, and i am trying to print the check list for my file, but every time i try printing, it says the file is protected. :think: :scratch:
See attached pic.

Is there a password i need to un-protect it?

Dont worry guys. I really have no idea what i was doing wrong, but when i attempted it again, i could print...
I guess i was just having a bad moment... :sneak:
Last edited by HomebrewJp on 31 Jan 2017, 19:42, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by PistolPatch » 7 months ago

:)  jp, easy enough to do, just were probably clicking on a protected cell and needed to go one higher or lower.

The joys of IT!
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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by HomebrewJp » 7 months ago

PistolPatch wrote::)  jp, easy enough to do, just were probably clicking on a protected cell and needed to go one higher or lower.

The joys of IT!
Thanks very much PP :thumbs:
What can I say, I think i am IT challenged.


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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by PistolPatch » 7 months ago

No, IT actually means intellectual torture  :lol:

When the new site gets published, we'll get back into making the BIABacus easier. Hope it hasn't taken too long for you to work your way around it. (It's quicker than anything else actually, it's just that the problems aren't disguised - lol)
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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by Brewmac » 6 months ago

Is there a way to change BIABacus defaults to US imperial?

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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by Rick » 6 months ago

Brewmac wrote:Is there a way to change BIABacus defaults to US imperial?
No, there is not. I've gotten so used to having US Imperial as the secondary value ... that I probably would not change it (even if I could) at this point.
I suspect this is something that may turn many folks off in the early stages of learning the spreadsheet. 
I've regularly used metric at work for 2 decades now, so it was an easy transition for somebody like me.


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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by Christin » 5 months ago

How do i get BIABacus? Do new members have access?

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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by Mad_Scientist » 5 months ago

Actually, it's the first post in this thread.

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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by Mawson » 2 months ago

Hi

I'm using "numbers" on my iPad ... unfortunately it won't convert the "unsupported formulas"

I don't suppose you have a "numbers" version.?

Cheers

Seb

Ps ... the spread sheet looks like just what I need


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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by Mawson » 2 months ago

Hi

I'm using "numbers" on my iPad ... unfortunately it won't convert the "unsupported formulas"

I don't suppose you have a "numbers" version.?

Cheers

Seb

Ps ... the spread sheet looks like just what I need


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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by Mawson » 2 months ago

Actually ...disregard.

As I wrote that post it occurred to me to just download excel.. works perfect

Great job on the spread sheet... fantastic

Cheers

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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by OldGoat » 1 month ago

Hello all! I am finally back! After traveling the USA for the last three years trying to figure out where I wanted to settle, we decided upon Ellijay Georgia! A beautiful little town in the mountains of NW GA. Anyway, I am ready to start brewing again. I tried it a few times in the RV, but with no room for any decent temperature control equipment, I didn't have much luck. One good batch, one drinkable batch, and two very tossable batches.

My first obvious question is...is there a new version of BIABacus that I might be missing. I had been using PR1.3T and that is still the only one I am finding on the forum. I want to make sure when I get going again that I am using the most up-to-date vesion.

My first beer will be my "Merry Effin' XMAS". It will be ready just in time.

Thanks in advance
OldGoat


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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by Scott » 1 month ago

Hello OldGoat,

Very nice to hear you're still alive and kicking...! ;) Is that town up near Delonoga? (Mountain Phase of a particular army school I attended was there.) How is the water (for brewing)? Any good craft breweries (besides the one at your house)? :drink: For sure could see the difficulty of brewing out of an RV.

They have not released a new version yet. I believe Pat actually has a new one, but is holding off until the new website is done - and continues to have technical difficulties that delay doing that. So you're good to go.

Welcome back to the forum! :salute:

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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by OldGoat » 1 month ago

Scott,

Dahlonega is about 40 miles east of Ellijay. Pretty rugged country over there. I can see why they had training there. I take it you were/are a Ranger. Thanks for you service!

Not certain about the water yet, but there are several good breweries in the area, so I assume it is good...unless everyone is treating their water.

Blue Ridge, GA: Fannin Brewing Co, Blue Ridge Brewing (more a restaurant that brews their own), and Grumpy Old Men (my favorite).
Asheville NC and Atlanta GA: Dozens of breweries in each.

I am sure there are many more. We have only been here for about a month and concentrating on finding a home...I will begin my beer treks after we are firmly ensconced and I have my first batch in the conical.

See you around.
OldGoat


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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by Scott » 1 month ago

Yes. A "Foundational Experience"... Was in one of the three Ranger Battalions as an enlisted man. Most attending the school are actually infantry officers and others not assigned to Battalion...
Last edited by Scott on 22 Aug 2017, 13:32, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by aplund » 3 weeks ago

I have a few questions:

1. Is the PR1.3T still the latest version?

2. Is this capable of estimating an OG from the grain bill?

3. In part F, I don't understand how it comes to the value in "WYWU" column. If I set the original recipe VAW equal to the VIF then it doesn't give me the original quantity. And when I decrease the VIF value, the WYWU column value goes _up_?! :scratch:


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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by PistolPatch » 3 weeks ago

Welcome to the forum aplund :salute:

1. PR  is the latest released version atm.

2. It is capable* however, the BIABacus is really designed in a way of "best practice." Here's what I mean...

If you were designing a recipe, best practice is to decide the OG you want (top of Section C) and then the percentage of malts (Section C left hand fields). If you do this, the weights of each malt you need to use is shown on the right of Section C.

Poor practice is typing in malt weights and seeing what OG they give you. Doing this, you have to re-type in all the malt weights until you achieve your desired OG which is clumsy. (The BIABacus does however still work with that method - see next paragraph).

If you are copying a recipe, type the OG of the recipe you are copying into the top of Section C and then the weight of malts used in the original recipe into the left hand fields of Section C. The BIABacus then shows what malts you will need to use for your system in the right hand fields of Section C.

3. Section F Error - You are right there (well-spotted :clap: ) and we need to get a corrected version out. The formula for WYWU is actually reversed. So instead of dividing x by y it is doing the opposite :dunno:.

* In the rare case (remember there should never really be a practical need for this) where you do want to know what OG a grain bill weight will give you, type the weights in on the left of Section C and then "play a game of twenty questions" by typing in various OG's at the top of Section C until the weights on the right hand side of Section B match those on the left.

One cool thing about The BIABacus is that should you find yourself having to do anything clumsy (like in the above paragraph), you're probably using The BIABacus like other software and therefore missing out on its speed and power.

Ask as many questions as you like aplund and once again, well-spotted on the Section F error.

:peace:
PP

[Just saw your first (introductory) post. Lots of great brewers in Brisbane! And, yes, with BIAB, you won't get that awful extract twang :drink: ]
Last edited by PistolPatch on 30 Aug 2017, 05:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by aplund » 3 weeks ago

PistolPatch wrote:
<span title="30 Aug 2017, 05:31">3 weeks ago</span>
If you were designing a recipe, best practice is to decide the OG you want (top of Section C) and then the percentage of malts (Section C left hand fields). If you do this, the weights of each malt you need to use is shown on the right of Section C.
Ahh.. ok. I think I get it now and why the column heading is "Grams/Ratios".

I'm planning on experimenting with a small SMaSH. So I tried changing the value to "1" and the "What you will use..." didn't change. So the "What you will use..." is calculated based on the assumed FGDB and moisture content? That looks like it can be fiddled with on the bottom right of the sheet. I don't have any values for the grain I have, but maybe the supplier can give me that information if things go horribly wrong.

I think what confused me is in the "original fermentable bill design" subsection, the weight in pounds column and the totals for EBC & SRM are estimated depending on the quantity and not just the ratios. It just seemed strange having 0.00 pounds and 0.0 EBC&SRM when entering a ratio.


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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by PistolPatch » 2 weeks ago

Sorry for the slow reply aplund - busy days!

I think to answer your last post, it might help for me to give a bit of a background on the BIABacus first...

The BIABacus - A Tiny Bit of Background/History

The BIABacus is an accidental but fortuitous "invention."

Some inventions are simple light bulb moments that solve a problem - no work required. Other inventions are light bulb moments followed by a lot of work. The BIABacus is actually the culmination of many inventions that gradually became a major invention (although this is not widely known currently for a variety of reasons).

There are probably well over a thousand unpublished versions of The BIABacus. In fact, the one you see now is about 9 versions ago. Even the name changed over these versions - the current BIABacus evolved from the very simple and innocent, "The Calculator."

It would be impossible to list all the light bulb moments and all the stages of hard work that formed the current BIABacus but I can list some of the very major ones (and the path wasn't as linear or as simple as I write it below):

- Firstly, we became conscious that there seemed to be something not quite right with existing brewing software. But, we weren't the experts so we spent a few years just even making sure there were problems.
- We reached a stage where we knew that some of the most basic maths of existing software was incorrect.
- We then identified the causes of the incorrect maths (poor terminology and misinterpretation of formulas).
- We then attempted (many, many hours) to help some mainstream software correct their formulas or terminology. Some basic things were corrected however many critical things were not possibly due to the fact that to have them all corrected would require the mainstream software admitting that in prior versions they had things completely wrong. (Personally I think they should have done that.)
- At that stage we had started to develop Clear Brewing Terminology, another thing that might look simple and obvious but took hundreds of hours of thought.
- We then gave up on mainstream software as it simply took too long for us to explain the faults and teach people how to use it at least somewhat correctly. (Remember this site is really all about education.)
- We then had to improve/develop our "The Calculator." This went through some very fancy incarnations (click a button and units would change from metric to US, import/export recipes etc) but, these advanced functions would work on one person's computer but not another's. (A few years lost there!)
- We then decided to strip it bare; no macros, buttons etc.
- By that point, we had a lot more confidence in questioning the status quo (incorrect formulas etc) and so we knew by then that the most basic fundamental of other brewing software was incorrect - extract efficiency (or EIK - Efficiency into Kettle) is a variable, not a constant.

All the above was done with one goal in mind - accurately and efficiently educate.

This is why when you see The current published version of The BIABacus, you see the Sections A to Z.

You hopefully won't realise just how many hundreds of hours (probably some thousands) just went into the layout. Try coming up with the terminology, layout, logical structure etc given the cell-size/space constrictions. (That's why the spread-sheet cell-size of The BIABacus is so small - every single field had to be carefully crafted to fit.)

And, that's just what you see. Underneath, hidden, are hundreds of complex formulas that all interact together to bring you what you see on the surface.

The Reasons I Say the Above Before Getting to Your Question is...

1. Other software might "look" more attractive but it's slow to use and actually wrong.
2. At this point in time, I don't think the IT is available to economically turn the BIABacus into "graphic software." (We have attempted this previously but shouldn't have because those who volunteered really had no idea of the complexity of the formulas underneath.)
3. This is a powerful bit of gear!

Now to Your Question - Finally :)

1 versus 100: Okay, if you type in 1 on the left of Section C, it won't do anything. Change it to 100 though and it will. From memory, what the hidden formulas underneath are asking is, "If the amounts above add up to 100, then the user is probably talking percentages. If not, they are talking weights."

FGDB and MC: Great question. What we found here are many, many things. I'd love to write an essay on them but I think I've already done one above :) . Basically, other software has a drop-down list and every ingredient has it's own FGDB / MC etc. But, that is actually not reality. I'll just skip the fact that some mainstream software has their calcs on those figures wrong and instead jump to the practicalities. Every batch of malt varies on its FGDB and MC. For example Barrett Burston Pale Malt Batch Number x made in September could be 3% different in specs from the November batch. Even if you knew the specs of the batch, how will you know the moisture content by the time it gets to you?

This is a good example of how mainstream software can "un-educate" us. (We actually had drop-downs of malts and hops in earlier incarnations of The BIABacus but discarded them for many reasons.)

To cut a long story short, in real life, you won't get better specs than what the BIABacus auto-estimates. The only time you should use Section Y is if adding a significant percentage of sugar or malt extract to your recipe.

...

That's probably enough (way too much?) from me aplund however, it is great to see you exploring, investigating and questioning.

I'd love to be able to see The BIABacus do lots of fancy stuff (eg click on a section and get really detailed info) but, at the moment it's not possible.

It's nice though (and it is a main aim of The BIABacus) to see you asking questions like the above.

One last thing... a paradox... this site has spent so much time developing this revolutionary "numbers" tool however, a motto of this site is also, "have a healthy disrespect for numbers." (Search my posts for "Number respect and disrespect" and some essay will come up ;) )

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 02 Sep 2017, 00:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by aplund » 2 weeks ago

Wow. Thanks for the info. I should probably read the whole thread before commenting.

I must admit that section Y confuses me at the moment. I don't quite understand how FGDB and MC relate to adjuncts. But I will go back and read some stuff to see if I can figure it out.

A couple of other things that are noteworthy. The "?" in the top right corner of each section doesn't do anything when I click it. Should it? I should also mention that I'm using LibreOffice to open these files. It seems to work out OK, but it might be an issue.

I brewed my first BIAB brew on the weekend. A simple pilsner + cluster smash. I used the BIABacus to help me along.

I had some problems with temperature control during the mash as I was just using my stove-top to try and stabilise the temperature of a mash that was only 7 L in volume. Never-the-less, the estimated pre-boil gravity was spot on. The post-boil gravity didn't work out, it was 3 points too low, but seemed OK enough for me to just go with it for pitching.

It seems that the predicted boil evaporation rate was too high. I only achieved 1.2 L/hour (28cm kettle diameter). My stove-top will get you boiling, but I don't think it is a vigorous as some other heat sources.

Anyway, fermentation seems to have occurred without any problems. And the wort samples used for measuring gravity seemed to taste OK. So I'll see what the final results are in a few weeks.


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Re: BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions

Post by PistolPatch » 2 weeks ago

No need to read the whole thread aplund. Questions, comments etc help with development of new site :salute:

As fast as I can...

Section Y: In brewing we can have malts, malt extracts, sugars and adjuncts. The definition of these terms is very messy. For example, an adjunct can mean anything from corn or rice (which contain 'sugars') through to rice hulls which have no sugar. If you're ever in doubt as to whether you need to use Section Y, for now, just ask. It's an advanced section and the only time you'll ever need it is if you are doing a recipe with a lot of "non-grain" ingredients.

The ?: Not ready yet :). What we want here is for you to be able to click on a ? and be lead to a page with full instructions/explanations for that section. It's not as easy to do that as we'd like :smoke:

Congrats on your maiden voyage :thumbs:. Tiny batch sizes are much harder to estimate the numbers with so getting anywhere near the ball-park on a first run is great. It's a bit like doing micro-surgery compared to surgery but without the microscope!

Don't hesitate to start new threads on the forum asking questions re your planned or completed brews.

Nice job :clap:
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