A question about Oats - to toast or not?

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arkique
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A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post by arkique » 8 months ago

Hiya people,

I am putting on  my first BIAB this coming weekend and have never used Oats before.
Now I am not a complete stranger to grains as I have done several partial brews but this time around I am going all grain for my Oatmeal pale ale (recipe improvised from several places on the interweb and books I own).

I am not sure whether I am going to toast my oats or not

I digress my actual question is will toasting my  rolled oats to a golden hue impact IBU much and is there any major things I should be compensating for if I decided to toast or not?

Once I have tested my recipe and made sure its not a complete abomination I will be posting the recipe and corresponding BIABcus here.

Many thanks in advance.
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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post by ShorePoints » 8 months ago

ardique,
Are you sure you meant to ask about toasted oats having an impact on IBUs and not color (SRM or other unit)? I'd say that oats would not impact bitterness when either toasted to golden brown or not toasted at all - burnt, maybe. Toasted oats could make a slight difference in color while adding body and adding a toasted flavor -that is not the same as a roasted flavor. Even if your recipe has lots of toasted oats, I think any additional IBUs would go unnoticed compared to that from hops added earlier than the 40 min mark.  :think:

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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post by arkique » 8 months ago

ShorePoints wrote:ardique,
Are you sure you meant to ask about toasted oats having an impact on IBUs and not color (SRM or other unit)? I'd say that oats would not impact bitterness when either toasted to golden brown or not toasted at all - burnt, maybe. Toasted oats could make a slight difference in color while adding body and adding a toasted flavor -that is not the same as a roasted flavor. Even if your recipe has lots of toasted oats, I think any additional IBUs would go unnoticed compared to that from hops added earlier than the 40 min mark.  :think:
Definitely  asking about the the IBU, I wasn't sure what/if any impact on it was caused by me toasting them beforehand. I didn't think it would be much if at all but it does not hurt to ask those who are in the know :D
I figured that if I added something that was toasted or roasted it would impact on the final colour.
Thanks for your 2c
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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post by Rick » 8 months ago

I have used lightly toasted rolled oats(purchased this way from Trader Joe's) in my coconut porter recipe, and regular quick oats with absolutely no detectable difference of flavor, bitterness, OG or ferment-ability. The recipe uses oats for about 12% of the fermentables.

This is likely due to the roasted malts masking such a light toasts, but I'd imagine you would get a nutty flavor in a pale ale. It's a very subtle change, so IBU's would be the least of my worries in designing a recipe. I'd be willing to bet that even just some english base malts would cover its contribution of flavor.

I have used oats in my pales before, but have been using red wheat for so long that I completely forget the detailed reasons why I prefer it over oats. 

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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post by arkique » 8 months ago

I'll be toasting my own oats on brew day.
If memory serves right  approx 10% of the grain bill is oats.
I'll post more info when I get home and have access to biabacus again.
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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post by ShorePoints » 8 months ago

Remember that toasting will drive off water and with a lower water content, the oats will weigh less. Front load that cookie sheet with 5% or more oats by weight so you have enough to match the weight you want.
I could be wrong about that if the all-powerful BIABacus has an assumed moisture content for oats (4%) and then you change the moisture content by toasting. You could then make changes in Section Y for the difference. That difference is going to be small, but it might matter to some. :think:
Last edited by ShorePoints on 25 Jan 2017, 22:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post by arkique » 8 months ago

That's a valid point. I hadn't thought about adjusting biabacus but I did plan to roast and 20% more oats that I needed.

Thanks for reminding me.

Brew day shall be this coming Saturday so I'll let you know if anything went wrong  :cool:
Edit: assuming my new immersion chiller arrives in time :)
Last edited by arkique on 26 Jan 2017, 19:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post by ShorePoints » 8 months ago

arkique wrote:That's a valid point. I hadn't thought about adjusting biabacus but I did plan to roast and 20% more oats that I needed.

Thanks for reminding me.

Brew day shall be this coming Saturday so I'll let you know if anything went wrong  :cool:
Edit: assuming my new immersion chiller arrives in time :)
If your new immersion cooler does not arrive in time you can do what is called no-chill.
See this post by PP
You do not necessarily need a cube, you can turn off your heat source and no-chill in the kettle. I brew outdoors under a deck and when doing no-chill I cover the kettle with a sanitized cloth (binder clips around the edge) after Flame Out. It takes a while (weather/temperature dependent) to cool below 80 ºC (175 ºF) so late hop additions have to be considered and adjusted. Once the 30 L kettle contents are below 60 ºC (140ºF)* I can move it indoors (garage) where it will be safe from the wildlife overnight. The next morning, it is at pitching Temp.
*I can almost keep my hand in contact with the outside of the kettle for ~5 seconds at 60 ºC - the human thermocouple. You'll have to calibrate yours independently.

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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post by arkique » 8 months ago

ImageIt arrived on time.  :champ: :champ:
Brewing has begun and I will be posting brew day info later on.
Last edited by arkique on 28 Jan 2017, 12:31, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post by Baldon » 6 months ago

I always toast my oats a little bit.


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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post by Muggy Dawson » 6 months ago

ShorePoints wrote:
<span title="26 Jan 2017, 22:17">8 months ago</span>
You do not necessarily need a cube, you can turn off your heat source and no-chill in the kettle. I brew outdoors under a deck and when doing no-chill I cover the kettle with a sanitized cloth (binder clips around the edge) after Flame Out. It takes a while (weather/temperature dependent) to cool below 80 ºC (175 ºF) so late hop additions have to be considered and adjusted. Once the 30 L kettle contents are below 60 ºC (140ºF)* I can move it indoors (garage) where it will be safe from the wildlife overnight. The next morning, it is at pitching Temp.
*I can almost keep my hand in contact with the outside of the kettle for ~5 seconds at 60 ºC - the human thermocouple. You'll have to calibrate yours independently.
I like this idea of retaining the wort in the kettle as a no chill.

I've always thought I needed to transfer/chill/F.V as quickly as possible to minimise possible infection, and exposure to oxygen prior to fermenting. Excuse me if I'm way off the mark with this as I'll readily acknowledge my limited experience, and that I'm picking up info from many various sources.

No chill in my urn would cut out the cube step on some brews I do, and probably allow for any trub to well and truly settle out below tap level.
Plus, plus from my view, but just concerned about this oxygen factor over the time it takes to cool to pitching temp.
My brewing takes place in the shed which has reasonable ventilation, so I'm probably less concerned about any foreign materials and wild yeasts than an outside brewer.
Next - Bohemian Pilsner.
Cubed - Sierra Pale.
F.V's - Smokey Dark Ale, Basic Stout.
Briefly Bottled - Basic Stout II, Basic Stout III, Stock Stout, Victory Stout, Southern Cross Pale, Smoked Porter.


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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post by goulaigan » 6 months ago

Muggy, no need to worry about oxygen pre-fermentation. Many brewers purposely oxygenate the wort at this stage because it promotes better yeast health. Infection is really the only concern when doing slow chill in the kettle. As long as you keep it covered well you will most likely be fine. I just put the lid on mine and leave it out on my deck until cool, usually several hours depending on weather, haven't had any problems and have done it this way for a few years now...


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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post by Muggy Dawson » 6 months ago

I'll try this for my next brew, there's a f.v free for it to go straight into and I can leave the wort until it's cool enough that the f.v can handle it. Then straight into the temp fridge until it comes to pitching temp. The cubes I'll only use for when there's no f.v available.
Cheers.
Next - Bohemian Pilsner.
Cubed - Sierra Pale.
F.V's - Smokey Dark Ale, Basic Stout.
Briefly Bottled - Basic Stout II, Basic Stout III, Stock Stout, Victory Stout, Southern Cross Pale, Smoked Porter.

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