Transfering wort to cube...How?

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Transfering wort to cube...How?

Post by bionut » 3 years ago

Hello world!

I am a begginer BIABer, with a kettle made out of a 50 litres beer keg, with no ball valve installed. Regularly, i chill the wort with a 15 meters ribcage chiller, but i want to save some time and try no-chill-ing. I already found some HDPE containers to use, but the problem is that i don't have a valve on the keggle, nor a silicon tube, or any other high temp tubing. The silicon tubing that i found is either too expensive, either sold in a minimum lenght (>15m), so i need to exclude any potential ways to do it first :scratch:

Could i simply transfer the wort from kettle to cube with a 1 liter cup?

Bionut :salute:

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Post by Rick » 3 years ago

I'm going to use my siphon, which is likely made from silicone.

http://www.superjiggler.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"If you want the highest quality pump & hose that won't break down or melt on you, order from us."

I boiled the end of it, and it seemed to not be bothered by it.
Image
Last edited by Rick on 10 Jan 2014, 07:12, edited 2 times in total.


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Post by PistolPatch » 3 years ago

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news guys but silicone hose the only hose I am aware of that is food-grade at boiling temps. It's possible you might get one or two brews out before getting a problem but on vinyl and other plastic hoses, the plasticisers come out of the plastic and the beer ends up tasting as though it was infected (the bandaid smell and flavour). Maybe cut a bit off the end of that hose you have Rick and smell it. Boil it a few times if you can't smell anything. It doesn't take much plasticiser to ruin your whole batch.

Bionut, hopefully someone here can tell you where to buy some silicone hose in shorter lengths. The one litre jug trick won't work for a few reasons. It will be a PITA. It will expose your wort to oxygen when it is hot which is not best practice and the temperature might drop a lot whilst you go through the process.

Save the no-chilling until you make sure you have the right hose.

;)
PP

[On the road atm so I'm going to be very erratic in the time I have available to spend here in the next three or so weeks. Hope the above is enough info for you.]
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Post by bionut » 3 years ago

The bad news is that i am in Romania, Europe, that's why i can't buy hose in small quantities with a fair price.
I will check ebay, but i don't think that pe shipping will worth pe effort.

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Post by Rick » 3 years ago

Yeah, you're right PP, I really am taking a chance with it even with the further precautions you mentioned. I tried emailing the company, but got no response as of yet.

Luckily for me, I am in charge of the company MSC account .. so I may as well take advantage of it. If I'm lucky, I may get it all for free! :D

This hose is food grade, and safe from -100F/-73C to 500F/260C.


Nylon tee is safe to 200F/93C, which is close enough for me, as I plan to transfer under that.

Idea taken from here.

I'll have to figure out a clamping option, probably will use small vise grips and make non-marring soft jaws for them.
Last edited by Rick on 10 Jan 2014, 21:50, edited 2 times in total.


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Post by alymere » 3 years ago

I use this type of hose
http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewt ... =37&t=4820

with a jiggle syphon http://www.amazon.co.uk/Laser-2420-Jigg ... B0012MEKYW, I just cut off the old hose and replace it, but I do have to be really thorough cleaning out after transfer.
Last edited by alymere on 13 Jan 2014, 21:40, edited 2 times in total.


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Post by bionut » 3 years ago

Doesn't the hose curl upwards in the kettle? I thought that i need a rigid racking cane (copper/ss tubing)... The shipping for that siphon is more than half the price of the siphon. Maybe i can make one, with some copper fittings and a glass marble or bearing ball, but, if the silicone tube doesn't curl like the pvc one, i could simply submerge the hose in the hot wort and keep one end closed, so i pull it up full of wort.
What do you think about that?

I apologise for my english.

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Post by Rick » 3 years ago

The ball in my jiggle siphon is also made from plastic, and it may need to be light in weight for it to function properly? Glass or metal may prevent smooth operation.

This is the exact reason I ditched the idea. Something to consider.


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Post by bionut » 3 years ago

I think that the liquid presure is strong enough to rise the ball, considering the jiggle motion.
I've found this site http://hazeclub.org/QSiphon/QSiphon.html where they show how to make one.
On the other hand, do you have problem keeping the hose at the bottom of the kettle? I once tryed to siphon some chilled wort with a PVC hose, but it currled upwards.

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Post by Rick » 3 years ago

bionut wrote:I think that the liquid presure is strong enough to rise the ball, considering the jiggle motion.
I've found this site http://hazeclub.org/QSiphon/QSiphon.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; where they show how to make one.
On the other hand, do you have problem keeping the hose at the bottom of the kettle? I once tryed to siphon some chilled wort with a PVC hose, but it currled upwards.
The jiggle motion only starts the siphon, what I meant was heavier ball material may not allow continuous flow. BUT, considering the link you provided somebody has answered that question for us.

I have had no issues keeping either end of the siphon where I want it to be so far(at room temp transfers), but then again I do not know the properties of silicone hose. This could all change.

It pumps rather quickly, so I hold the valve end just under the surface of beer while the plastic end lays free at the bottom of whatever i'm transferring to. It stays put pretty well once positioned. If the heat causes it to collapse, we may need to resolve with attachment.
Last edited by Rick on 14 Jan 2014, 02:42, edited 2 times in total.


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Post by alymere » 3 years ago

The syphon I have has a copper fitting with a glass ball in it. The replacement hose is very heavy and stays in place. When it's in operation it really makes a loud noise as the glass ball vibrates in the copper fitting. I never leave it unattended when syphoning, heard too many horror stories of losing wort over the floor. I try and put most of the wort, trub and all into the no chill container. I always use the biab bag for the hops in the boil.


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Post by bionut » 3 years ago

I think of making a copper siphon, with only the part that enter the cube of silicon. I am not sure how to start it, i am afraid of sucking the hot wort.
The silicone hose that i can buy is only 9 mm ID, and 13 mm OD, i think that is too small, isn't it? Bigger sizes are sold only by the spool.


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Post by alymere » 3 years ago

Without some sort of automatic syphon or a tap I can't think of any way to transfer the very hot wort.

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Post by mally » 3 years ago

I have tried the Jiggler with silicone, and never experienced a problem with the tubing.
I did not like the jiggler though. :shoot:
I know others have used it with great success and love using it but I found I couldnt syphon the wort without disturbing the break.
Not a problem if you are dumping everything in the cube though. At least it was only £2 with free delivery.
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Post by bionut » 3 years ago

I've found on ebay that tip for £2, but the postage is £7 :(

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Post by thughes » 3 years ago

I'm happy with the ball valve installed on all my brew pots, makes life very easy. YMMV.

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Post by PistolPatch » 3 years ago

Before we even get to the hose problem (see below), the first problem to solve is whether to use...

1. The Tee-Method - As Rick linked in post #5 above.
2. A Jiggler
3. A Ball-Valve/Tap

I have or have tried all of the above methods (except the tee one) and two more methods. I've also seen quite a few other brewer's methods so I'd like to think my advice is not too bad.

There are problems with all five (not three) methods but in bionut's case I reckon...

A brass tee of the right size will be easy and cheap to purchase locally. So, go the tee method, at least for now.
bionut wrote:The silicone hose that i can buy is only 9 mm ID, and 13 mm OD, i think that is too small, isn't it? Bigger sizes are sold only by the spool.
That's actually a really nice diameter for a gentle transfer bionut. It is very close to 3/8" which is heaps better than 1/2" for gentle transfers. (But, for no-chill, a gentle transfer isn't really always a necessity.)

A diameter like that though will mean that it might take about twenty minutes to transfer from kettle to cube. That is fine but on no-chill I would be a bit worried about prolonged exposure to oxygen and temperature drop.

So, who knows?

...

Some critical questions...

How are you transferring now?
If you do no-chill, when are you intending to pitch the wort? (Next day or months later/)

:peace:
Last edited by PistolPatch on 14 Jan 2014, 18:05, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by bionut » 3 years ago

Now i transfer with a 15 mm (5/8) copper pipe as a racking cane ( to keep the hose from curling) and a PVC hose that fits on the copper pipe. I start the siphon by sucking on a smaller hose that i put in the bigger one, and when it start i pull the small one out.
I am not intending to whait as much as a month, maximum 3-4 days probably. I want to try this just to save some time from the brewing day, not to keep the wort for such long time.

About the time it will take to transfer with that hose, what if i keep a little flame on? This will affect my final hop adition thought... But i can't get bigger hose sadly. I found some on ebay.co.uk, but is to expensive for now, as a student i have to chose the cheaper alternative :D

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Post by mally » 3 years ago

Can you seal up your keg with a good fitting lid?
With such a short chill to pitch time, you MAY be able to just leave it in the keg & transfer to fermenter when ready.

Has anybody heard of leaving the kettle sealed up for more than a day or so? Just a thought.
Last edited by mally on 14 Jan 2014, 20:42, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by bionut » 3 years ago

Before i made a chiller i tried this and got an infection (it turned sour). Is true that the lid didn't make a perfect seal.
The cube can be turned over to pasteurize all internal surface by the hot liquid. Is the same proces as caning food.
I know that some guys have good results wirh chilling in the kettle, but i am a little paranoid about infection.


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Post by bionut » 3 years ago

PistolPatch wrote: A diameter like that though will mean that it might take about twenty minutes to transfer from kettle to cube. That is fine but on no-chill I would be a bit worried about prolonged exposure to oxygen and temperature drop.
The temperature drop i don't think that it will be so massive, keeping in mind that pasteurization occurs at about 71 degrees Celsius.
As for the exposure to oxygen i am not too worried after listening to the BrewStrong podcast about Hot Side Aeration...

I am ordering some 9 mm silicone hose and give it a try. Today i bought a 20 l HDPE jerry can, so i only need some yeast and the hose.

I will keep you posted :thumbs:
Last edited by bionut on 16 Jan 2014, 06:58, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by BobBrews » 3 years ago

bionut,

If you haven't seen it yet look at my old web page and video. Clunky but easy to understand. :lol:

http://www.stempski.com/biab.php
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Post by bionut » 3 years ago

Thank you Bob, i know your website, i think that from you i first heard about No Chill :D


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Post by bionut » 2 years ago

Hello guys, came here just for a short update. I was able to find a cheap brass tee from ebay and i used it for a couple of no chill brews. It went good, but the beer seemed a bit astringent, on the grassy side. I transfer 20 liter of wort in about 7-8 minutes.
I also have bought a weldless ball valve with all the fittings needed, stainless steel, and waiting for the time to install it.

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