new to no chill

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baikinman
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new to no chill

Post by baikinman » 3 years ago

I'm yet to try biab but am just trying to get everything sorted in my head first. No-chilling is something i will be doing just to save me waiting around for wort to cool.

I wandered why i cant just leave my finished hopped wort in the kettle wrapped in cling film (to stop any thing getting inside) overnight ? Everything inside will be clean as its just been boiling hops for an hour, or does something develop inside in the time being ? it'll only ever be left for 15-24 hours. Then just syphon of the wort into my FV aerating and leaving any big lumps behind then pitch the yeast.

If not does this look ok ? i generally do 13 litre brews.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Litre-Grade-Pla ... B00J23CZGI

Cheers
Last edited by baikinman on 26 Nov 2014, 19:41, edited 1 time in total.


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Post by joshua » 3 years ago

Baikinman,

I have no problems leaving the wort in the Kettle until cool, I also late hop/whirlpool hop/HopStand after flame-out for more flavor and aroma.

You be aware the wort does contract a lot.

So, a sanitary tea towel/bath towel layed over the Kettle, with the lid on top of the towel, with keep the Bugs out of the wort.

The only problem with the "Cube" you posted, is the Tap.

It is a different plastic and may Leak after the Cube collapses.
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Post by goulaigan » 3 years ago

I just leave my wort in the kettle to cool as well. Haven't done the sanitary towel, I just throw the lid on and leave it, works especially well in winter. I've been a bit nervous about doing it this way, since as Joshua says the wort will contract as it cools, this creates a vacuum sucking outside air into the pot, so the sanitized towel is probably a good idea... (although I'm not sure I have one big enough to fit over my 60 litre stock pot)


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Post by joshua » 3 years ago

Goulaigan, a Beach towel will work.

Fold it so it can cover the Kettle, and Sanitize it In an Oven at 275F to 300F for 45 minutes to 1 hour.

If the Oven is messy(like mine), set it on some Aluminum Foil.

At that temperature, nothing that can hurt us Survives.
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Post by baikinman » 3 years ago

ok great thanks guys, think i'll go with the cling film around the whole pot & lid though, saves me sanitising a towel and will do the same job and should be clean straight of the roll (as long as it doesn't melt !)


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new to no chill

Post by c_squared » 3 years ago

I'm also interested in a no/slow chill option in the kettle. Anyone had any issues with infections? Like the op I was going to wrap my kettle in cling film and leave it overnight to cool down to pitching temp.


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Post by joshua » 3 years ago

C_Squared, As long as you get the Kettle Covered before the Temperature drops below 150F/65C the kettle will be Sterile.

If you breath into the Kettle of Touch the wort above that temperature the is no chance of Infection.

You can late hop for Flavor/Aroma and a few points of Bitterness, add spices for spiced Ales, or other Post Boil Additions(honey, fruit syrup, Etc).
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Post by goulaigan » 3 years ago

I just leave the lid on, no cling wrap, no towel and no infections in 15 batches or so... I recall trying the cling wrap thing the second or third time I did this and it was more of a pain than anything. The towel idea seems like it would be the simpler of the two...


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Post by joshua » 3 years ago

Yep, the towel acts as an air filter, to prevent the Contraction of the Wort locking the lid.

A ring of any filter material could be placed in the lid/kettle interface, and do the same thing...Just a bit more work then a towel.
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new to no chill

Post by c_squared » 3 years ago

joshua wrote:Yep, the towel acts as an air filter, to prevent the Contraction of the Wort locking the lid.

A ring of any filter material could be placed in the lid/kettle interface, and do the same thing...Just a bit more work then a towel.
Locking the lid, as in, once cooled the lid is stuck on? Can this be an issue? Also, how careful do you have to be with sterilising the towel? It sounds like a bit of a faff to be putting it in the oven
Last edited by c_squared on 27 Nov 2014, 05:01, edited 1 time in total.


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Post by goulaigan » 3 years ago

My lid doesn't lock, instead I believe outside air gets slowly sucked in as the wort cools, hasn't caused me any problems so far tho, even outside in my firewood shed, which probably has a good amount of nasties floating around in the air... If your kettle is in a fairly clean area while cooling there is probably less chance of infection, and with a sanitized towel, probably even less...


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Post by joshua » 3 years ago

C,
Anything that get above 150F/65.55C is considered sanitized(bacteria, Mold).
Any Object above 240F is Super sanitized(virus).
Objects at 300F and considered Sterilized(most all living things).
Of Course, most living things will become Carbon at or above 452F.

Prions are not considered to be alive, and need 650F to decompose.
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Post by c_squared » 3 years ago

Oops wrong terminology, I meant sanitised, not sterilised. Would ironing a towel with the steam on hold the temp long enough to sanitise a towel?


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Post by joshua » 3 years ago

C, yes, a steam Iron does get above 212F, will kill off Molds, And Bacteria.

If the Ironing Board is Steam Ironed before the Towel is done
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new to no chill

Post by c_squared » 3 years ago

Thanks Joshua


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Post by nicko » 3 years ago

I'm only new at no chill and AG but I found this very good guide: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/62779 ... hill-cube/

I got some 20 litre (actually hold 23) blue BMW brand cubes from bunnings, they come with a plug where a tap can be inserted, I leave the plug in during fermentation and replace it with a sterilised tap just before pouring into kegs/bottles.

One good thing about transferring hot wort through a silicon hose is that you sanitise the cube (which is already clean and sanitised, but it's a handy backup). I leave my cubes on one side for ten minutes and then flip them to make sure the wort touches everything. Touch wood I haven't had any infections doing it this way, and it's all one vessel for wort storage and fermenting, so it's easy.. Also once the wort is transferred I just wash the kettle and worry about the cubes in a day or two, easy peasy.

Anyway just my two cents, hot cube rather than worrying about wort sitting in a kettle.
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new to no chill

Post by Contrarian » 3 years ago

The real advantage of no chilling in a cube is that you don't need to ferment it the next day and can have a stockpile of beer ready to ferment as fermenter space becomes available.

I'm also convinced that in the days of yore wort wouldn't have been chilled or hot packed into HDPE cubes, it would have left to sit until ready to pitch.

A healthy pitch of yeast into well aerated wort should at least mean the yeast out competes any other wild yeast or bacteria that are present.

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Post by mally » 3 years ago

Just for info Contrarian; When I did the Becks tour in Bremen (Germany).
Back in the 1800's they did not brew during summer time as they needed access to ice. They are based on the river bank and would cut huge chunks of ice from the river during cold spells. Then use that to rapid chill the wort.

I don't think every brewery would have been able to do this (esp. if landlocked), but it was an option back then for some. ;)
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Post by Contrarian » 3 years ago

Thanks for the info Mally. I am quite interested in the history of brewing, how did they use the ice to chill the beer?

Given beer has been made for thousands of years I'm sure almost any method we could dream up has been used somewhere along the way!

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Post by mally » 3 years ago

I find the old methods interesting too.

I have also just remembered that Becks said they used to ship ice from Norway. On hot days they used to arrive with an empty ship! :angry: :lol: :lol:

This could be interesting for you from Kai.
At the very end of the page there is a discussion about a "Berieslungskuehler" device. The advanced models apparently used well water at the top half, and ice water at the bottom. Very similar to what we would do now I guess with tap water & an ice bath?
Last edited by mally on 07 Dec 2014, 05:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by joshua » 3 years ago

There is an Idea from Cooking, that may good for brewing....Freezing 1 or 2 liter soda bottles filled with water.

Add them to the Hot or Nearly Hot Wort, The PET plastic should not melt due to the Ice/Water contained inside.

I have not tried this, as it is Winter in North America, and it easier to chill in the Kettle, outside on the Porch.
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Post by nicko » 3 years ago

I just bottled and jegged a brew that had been no chilled then fermented in the cube. I had about 70 grams of dry hops in the cube too, once I emptied the cube (well the hops started coming out), I just rinsed the cube with a garden house, pulled the tap apart and gave that a rinse too, easy peasy brewing, such a big fan of no chill and fermenting in the cube!
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Post by PistolPatch » 3 years ago

nicko wrote:I just bottled and jegged a brew that had been no chilled then fermented in the cube. I had about 70 grams of dry hops in the cube too, once I emptied the cube (well the hops started coming out), I just rinsed the cube with a garden house, pulled the tap apart and gave that a rinse too, easy peasy brewing, such a big fan of no chill and fermenting in the cube!
Be really careful with this Nick.

There are many issues here. For example...

I did six no-chills and kept them for about a year. My cubes had no taps and all those six brews were great. I did the same again with four of those cubes and have lost three of them. The fourth one I have chilled now and that one might be lost too.

Why?

Well, the only thing I can think of is that the white rubber seal on the lid may have become brittle or something from the first brew.

Your situation would be far more dangerous than mine if no-chilling for long periods as you also have a tap on your cubes. God knows how much can go wrong there. If you are pitching as soon as the wort cools, then the risk lowers. Just be aware though that the risk varies with the amount of 'moving parts' and the time between flame-out and pitching.

Personally, if I didn't have a chiller and wanted to pitch as soon as my wort was cool enough, I would use my BIAB bag as a hop-sock, leave the wort in the kettle to chill and then transfer to my fermentor and pitch. I have done that many times. A fermentor is far more accessible to clean than a cube.

What I am trying to say is that everyone's scenario varies.No-chill can be excellent in one scenario and very dangerous in another.

;)
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 08 Dec 2014, 20:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by shibolet » 3 years ago

i too love my no chillin'
i usually ferment in the no-chill cube after the wort is chilled.
my tip for storing the empty cubes between uses is to fill the jerry with about a liter of tap water and about a capfull of of bleach. shake well and store on the side so the cap and white rubber seal are also in contact with the bleach solution. this is of course after the cube has been thoroughly cleaned after its prier use.
before using it again, i rinse well and sanitize with Starsan.
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Post by nicko » 3 years ago

Thanks guys,

I no chill without the tap attached, using a bung instead as the tap gets in the way. On the day I need to transfer from the cube to bottles/keg, I sanitise the bung area and the tap and install it.

Afterwards I hose out the cube then clean with a sodium precarbonate solution before storing dry (read that on AHB and it seems to work well), then on brew day I wash and sanitise then transfer very hot wort to the cube and pitch yeast as soon as it's cool enough, I'm not storing cubes for long.

I'll take the hop sock advice on board though Pat as 70gm is about the cube limit without getting hop reside through the tap (found that out last brew by accident).
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