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I want 23 liter batch size but my kettle is only 25 liter

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Kangarooster
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I want 23 liter batch size but my kettle is only 25 liter

Post by Kangarooster » 2 years ago

Hello!

I will soon make my second batch of beer. My first batch only ended up with 7 liters, but I want to make more this time. But as the title says I am currently limited by my small kettle.

What I am wondering is if there are any drawbacks to using a full scale (23 l) recipe with regard to grain amount, but utilize less water for mashing (i.e. make a more concentrated mash), and then gradually add boiling water to the pot during the boil step in an effort to arrive at a final batch size of 23 l (or desired OG)?

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Post by Bellybuster » 2 years ago

No problem at all, just do the calcs.
Some folks simply add the extra top off water directly to the fermenter.


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Post by Kangarooster » 2 years ago

@Bellybuster: Thank you for your reply.

Is it this procedure that is referred to as MaxiBIAB?

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Post by Mad_Scientist » 2 years ago

It's discouraged to go to this extreme, as the quality of the beer will suffer. Jimmy's Maxi BIAB thread is closed.

If you can get a larger pot and use the BIABacus, it will tell you when you are pushing the limits.

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Post by Bellybuster » 2 years ago

Ive done it many times and find that 30% is that mark where things start going down hill although I was able to counter most of that by mashing a few degrees higher to bring the malt forward so it doesn't disappear when diluted.
Look at Brewhouse kit beers, they are probably 40% water addition to a high gravity wort, If I remember right they are 13 litres of wort that you add 8l of water to. They are excellent for kit beers.
Pretty sure they concentrate wort by boiling rather than mashing high gravity though.


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Post by safebrew222 » 2 years ago

I'm gonna side with MS on this one. That procedure is not the "best practice". You will get beer, maybe good beer, but you will be sacrificing something in return. In this case, beer quality.


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Post by Kangarooster » 2 years ago

Thank you for your comments. My problem is that I don't think that my stove can handle larger kettles, it's too weak.


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Post by joshua » 2 years ago

Kanga, you can cut the Ingredients in Half or thirds, and Brew 2 or 3 Batches, all the Way to the fermenter.

You will have the 23L batch, and never Boil more than 10L to 11L.

Also, if there is a Mistake during the Mash or Boil, you make make it UP, during the 2nd or 3rd Batch.

You can do a lot of work with 3 batches, but, the beer can be MUCH better
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Post by Kangarooster » 2 years ago

joshua wrote:Kanga, you can cut the Ingredients in Half or thirds, and Brew 2 or 3 Batches, all the Way to the fermenter.

You will have the 23L batch, and never Boil more than 10L to 11L.

Also, if there is a Mistake during the Mash or Boil, you make make it UP, during the 2nd or 3rd Batch.

You can do a lot of work with 3 batches, but, the beer can be MUCH better
Sorry for the late reply joshua. So if I understand you right, I should do 3 batches and then mix them in the fermenter? Wouldn't this take a lot of time? 3x90 min mash + 3x90 min boil + 3x60 min cool (or maybe I can I add the first and second batch to the fermenter w/o cooling?).

Then I rather do 3 different beers instead :)
Last edited by Kangarooster on 28 Sep 2015, 18:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Bellybuster » 2 years ago

You can do a traditional mash and then sparge with the extra water. Folks have been brewing like this forever prior to biab.
Mash in at 1.25 -1.5 qts per pound of grain and then sparge with the remaining water.
This can be done with a single vessel by lifting the bag and pouring your sparge water thru it. You may take a hit on efficiency but it will work. Just add a bit more grain

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Post by Bellybuster » 2 years ago

I like 50 litre batches but can only mash a 40 litre batch, I just lift the basket and sparge with 10 litres. My beers haven't suffered

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Post by Mad_Scientist » 2 years ago

Kangarooster - Are you a user of the BIABacus?

Why don't you post a BIABacus file of something you want to make. Make sure you enter your kettle dimensions in Section B and we will take a look at how extreme you can safely dilute.
PistolPatch wrote:30% is the maximum you should go for on an into fermentor dilution (15% is better). Pre-boil dilutions are not a quality penalty at all and during the boil additions vary between these two.
Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 29 Sep 2015, 08:23, edited 1 time in total.


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Post by Kangarooster » 2 years ago

Mad_Scientist wrote:Kangarooster - Are you a user of the BIABacus?

Why don't you post a BIABacus file of something you want to make. Make sure you enter your kettle dimensions in Section B and we will take a look at how extreme you can safely dilute.
PistolPatch wrote:30% is the maximum you should go for on an into fermentor dilution (15% is better). Pre-boil dilutions are not a quality penalty at all and during the boil additions vary between these two.
Thank you.

I'll attach my latest (first using BIABacus) brew to this post.
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Last edited by Kangarooster on 29 Sep 2015, 17:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Mad_Scientist » 2 years ago

Seems you make about 18 - 19 liters into fermenter going this route before any warnings popup on the BIABacus, see attached.
This is about the limit I would recommend.

After the mash is over and the bag is suspended over the pot, pour over 3 L water through the bag, then add 2 L before the boil.
The 4 L of water added into the fermenter should be pre-boiled/cooled.
BIABacus PR1.3T - American - Amber Ale - Batch A0 - MS.xls
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Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 29 Sep 2015, 23:10, edited 1 time in total.


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Post by Kangarooster » 2 years ago

Thanks a lot Mad_Scientist for taking your time to help me, very much appreciated!

Should the sparging water be at the same temperature as the mash, and during how long time should I sparge? Can I put the bag in a separate container and add water to it, leave it there for a while, and then add to the kettle?

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Post by Mad_Scientist » 2 years ago

Yes, using sparge water at a mash temp is okay, just place your bag in that other container, the water, and raise and lower the bag a few times, then pull and drain.

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Post by Kangarooster » 2 years ago

Thanks again. For my next brew I will try this. :)

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