Your Feedback and Questions on Using Maxi-BIAB on Mini-BIAB.

Any method that is not a 'full-volume' mash. Usually, but not always, requires more than a single vessel or heat source. Includes traditional, three-vessel brewing.

stux
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Post by stux » 6 years ago

truman42 wrote:
stux wrote: The big trick is not to over-sparge and end up with more liquid that you can fit in your pot, or boil off ;)
Hello Im new to BIAB and want to give it a try but have a couple of questions. If I start with a 19 litre pot and pull my bag out to Sparge and end up with say 15 litres in my pot. Then I sparge with four litres and pour more water over the top of the open grain bag and stir for 15 mins then pull the grain bag out and pour this in the pot which might be say 3-4 litres which takes my pot volume up to 18-19 litres. If I do a second sparge as per the instructions I wont have any room for this liquid to go into the pot as well? I know you can put it aside and add it later but surely it wont reduce that much that I can add the extra 2-3 litres?
I don't work at Mini-BIAB scales, so am not sure, but you do get a fair bit of evaporation. Anyway, you add as much of your sparge back during your 90 minute boil (this gets you more evaporation) as you can. Its best to make sure you don't add sparge during the last 10-15 minutes so that your final addition has time to sterilise.

If you can't add it back, then don't worry about it.
Also I am having trouble with this part here and want to make sure Ive got it right.

Ok, so our stockpot has cooled to pitching.
How do we know when it has cooled to pitching if we cant open the lid to check it with a thermometer?
Pitching temperature is normally about 20C or so. You should be able to feel the outside of your pot with your hand... once its cooled some. If its cool to touch, or at room temperature, then that's good enough.

Or you can put a sanitized thermometer in. If you have to take the lid off, then so be it.
We need to know the Specific Gravity and Volume of the wort (estimate the volume if need be- the kettle is usually full almost to the brim at the boil end, but shrinkage due to cooling will mean that there's a lower volume at pitching). We want the cooled volume, but don't under any circumstances open the lid or touch the wort until you are ready to pitch, even then anything that contacts the wort must be scrupulously sanitised.
How do we get the post boil SG if we cant open the lid?
I personally take a sample of wort at the end of the boil, while its still boiling hot. I let that cool separately and measure the gravity of that sample, and give it a taste. Then I can work out my dilution once I pour it into my fermenter... which is graduated (i very carefully measured out and drew the markings on it myself once upon a time, and have since copied them to three other fermenters ;))

The other way I do it is to no-chill in an HDPE cube, and then i fill my fermenter from that. I can then run some wort through the tap for a gravity sample.
Work out the dilution, this formula is usually good enough:
Post- boil Specific Gravity / Target Specific Gravity * Post- Boil Concentration = Diluted Volume

So if my post boil SG is 1.070 and my target OG is 1.046 the formula would be 70/60*18=21.06-18=3 litres (assuming my 19L pot has reduced to 18 litres) So I would just add 3.06 litres of water into my fermenter? Shouldnt I also allow a bit extra for trub left behind in the pot?So make my post boil volume 1 litre less??
Well, if you wanted 1.060 instead of 1.046

But if you want 1.046 then it would be

60/46 * 18 = 27.4L, -18 = 9.4L

The correct formula is actually

(SG1-1)/(SG2-1) * V1 = V2
Thanks for the help.
Last edited by stux on 24 Aug 2011, 16:53, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
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On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12


stux
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Post by stux » 6 years ago

truman42 wrote:Okay one more question...Just say I have 17 litres and my post boil SG is very high and when doing my calculations I need to add say 8 litres of water to bring my target gravity down to my recipes limit. 17+8 = 25 litres and my fermenter is only 23 litres.
Do I simply throw out the excess? So only add 15 litres from my pot? Is that how it works??

Well, you have decision, you can either throw out some wort, or ferment your beer a bit stronger, or do both, or save some of the undiluted wort and freeze it for use in starters (after boiling and cooling it to sterilise it again)

I'm not sure having more than 23L will really be a problem tho ;)
Last edited by stux on 24 Aug 2011, 16:55, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12


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Post by truman42 » 6 years ago

Thanks for the help stux (and the correction to my sum..lol)
What exactly is a hdpe cube? Is that one of those 25 litre blue containers with the tap at the bottom? So do you pour your wort in there and wait until it cools then pour it out via the tap into your fermenter? I'm assuming this method would help keep the trub in the cube if you only drain to the tap level?

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Post by hashie » 6 years ago

Hi truman42, yes a blue 25 litre container is what you are looking for. Or it could be white, clear or any other colour. It does need to be made from HDPE to ensure that it is food safe and able to withstand the temperature of hot wort.

Personally, I would not use one with a tap. I have an in-built fear that the tap will pop out under the hot conditions and your beer will be lost.

If in doubt do some research into no-chill, this should answer any further questions.
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Post by truman42 » 6 years ago

Okay well I got myself a HDPE container from Grain and Grape after viewing the BIAB demo they had there on Saturday. Just wanting to know can I use one of those squeezy hand siphon pumps you get from the hardware store to siphon my beer from the pot to the HDPE cube?

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Post by hashie » 6 years ago

Ahh, no. I would think they would be way to soft.

You could try an auto siphon. They will do the job for a little while until the heat kills it.

Or you could get a stainless racking cane with some silicone tubing to siphon the wort. This is what I use.
Last edited by hashie on 28 Aug 2011, 09:39, edited 5 times in total.
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Post by Lylo » 6 years ago

Today I will be trying a jiggler type siphon at the end of some silicone tubing.This thing works great in clear wort,and I am hoping it wont get Jammed up with trub.
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Post by stux » 6 years ago

Lylo wrote:Today I will be trying a jiggler type siphon at the end of some silicone tubing.This thing works great in clear wort,and I am hoping it wont get Jammed up with trub.
I use a stainless steel jiggler siphon. Works great with pellets, dismal failure with flowers! If your using whole hop flowers do yourself a favor and bag them in some voile!

Unfortunately the online store where I got my jiggler has closed :(
Last edited by stux on 29 Aug 2011, 08:21, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12


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Post by Lylo » 6 years ago

Mine I think is copper and I am probably poisoning my self,but at least it will be a beer related icident!BTW It worked perfectly today.
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Post by housecat » 6 years ago

Lylo wrote:Mine I think is copper and I am probably poisoning my self,but at least it will be a beer related icident!BTW It worked perfectly today.
Could someone explain why the copper may be bad for your health?
I always thought copper would be fine as that's what the old mash tuns were made out of back in the day.

Cheers
HC
Last edited by housecat on 29 Aug 2011, 13:10, edited 5 times in total.
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hashie
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Post by hashie » 6 years ago

Copper is fine, it'll just turn your innards green!

I remember 20 odd years ago, people I worked with not using hot tap water because the hot water was coming through copper pipe. Something about ingesting copper sulphide???

Considering The World Health Organisation has lifted the allowable limit of Boron in drinking water from 0.1 ppm to 4.0ppm, I'm not worried about a bit of copper.
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Post by Lylo » 6 years ago

I feel fine with it,I was just expecting someone to warn me of the serious dangers of copper.P.S.I really don't care what the color of my innards are so long as they don't become outtards!! :argh:
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Post by PistolPatch » 6 years ago

Two quick things that mainly back up what hashie has already said...

Copper is fine. What isn't fine is using hot water out of a modern day hot water heater that may or may not be copper-based. If it has a sacrificial diode, as most do, then don't use that water for brewing.

Truman, that syphon will not work for hot transfer of wort. PM wizard78 and see if his stainless steel auto-syphon will be available to all soon otherwise use hashie's method with silcione hose. Don't use the normal auto-syphon as it will melt straight away pretty much.

Cheers,
PP
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Post by leggedit » 6 years ago

Hi have been lurking for a while planning first venture into BIAB and note initial guide suggested grain into bag in cold water and then heat to mash temp, later advice now seems heat water to mash temp then add bag and then stir in grains.
Has anyone established if there are good reasons for either and is there a consensus on whether grains should only be added at mash temp?
Best etc Leggedit

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Post by hashie » 6 years ago

Good advice from Joshua, but I'd like to add that it is difficult raising the temperature with the grains already in.

I did this on my second BIAB brew and burnt a hole in the bag. The problem is that you need to stir the grain constantly while adding heat, otherwise the grain settles to the bottom causing scorching and burning problems. Especially when it could take 20 - 30 minutes to get to mash temperature.

So it's much easier to get your water up to strike temperature and then add your grains. At least start this way and after a few brews you can try different methods to find what works for you.

Happy brewing.
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Post by leggedit » 6 years ago

Thanks for your comments, I am almost certainly going to heat water first but was interested to know if there was any effect on the grain conversion.
I will let you know how I get on in due course as I am having a vessel made for me.


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Post by rich27500 » 6 years ago

I have a 25L electrim bin and with that volume would always need to dilute the boiled wort to my target OG. So I'm kind of a maxi biab brewer. I don't have a wort chiller and can't put this in the sink. Would there be an advantage of diluting in the boiler with very cold water or even adding some ice? Alternatively I could put my FV in the sink after filling it.


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Post by stux » 6 years ago

I would suggest investigating No Chill
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12


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Post by Krisjch » 6 years ago

This Maxibiab method is perfect for my needs. However, I have a question to the spreadsheet posted by jestersdarts:

In the sheet “Hop Bill”, the End of Boil volume (from sheet Volumes etc.) is used to scale the amount of hops to achieve the desired IBU of each hop addition. However, the wort is diluted by adding water after boiling for achieving the desired volume in the fermenter. As far as I understand, the bitterness of the brew will be diluted as well by adding post boil water.

Shouldn’t the hop weight be based on “end of boil volume” + “dilution water to add after boil”?

Further, I guess the post boil gravity should be used for calculating hop weight, not the original gravity of the recipe. This is at least how I understood the Tinseth formula as stated in “How to Brew”.


- Krisjch


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Post by stux » 6 years ago

Krisjch wrote:This Maxibiab method is perfect for my needs. However, I have a question to the spreadsheet posted by jestersdarts
LInk?
Last edited by stux on 18 Nov 2011, 05:39, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12


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Post by Krisjch » 6 years ago

stux wrote:
Krisjch wrote:This Maxibiab method is perfect for my needs. However, I have a question to the spreadsheet posted by jestersdarts
LInk?
Post #22 in this thread (first page): viewtopic.php?f=89&t=353#p3913

- Krisjch
Last edited by Krisjch on 18 Nov 2011, 14:18, edited 5 times in total.


stux
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Post by stux » 6 years ago

Yes, you're right about the dilution and bitterness

I suggest you use one of my Maxi-BIAB calculators... they're scattered all over the forum ;)
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12


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Post by Krisjch » 6 years ago

Thank you Stux!

Will look into your calculator. I assume it is the one found in the "Maxi-BIAB Calculator"-thread.

- Krisjch


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Post by cascades » 5 years ago

So, Guess I did a Maxi-BIAB without knowing it. I hadn't read the maxi-biab section before hand because I assumed it meant some maximum/crazy big volume. I pictured outdoor 20 gallon pots and assumed my 6 gal/23 liter pot was definitely not that! Well, I'm all read up now. Thanks Ralph for your system, I was struggling along trying to reinvent it and then found that you had worked it out already.
At the end of my first biab/AG brew day (just 4 previous extract batches) I ended up with only about 4 gallons into the FV out of about 8.5lb of grain and that was with no sparge. So, next time I should be able to get 5 (or more) gallons into my 6 gal FV right? Seems like the consensus is that above about 10 lbs for a 6 gal pot is about the limit before efficiency starts to go down due to poor water/grain ratio. Of course the bag gets difficult to remove too. Makes sense to me so far except that most standard recipes are for "5 gallon" batches and start with about 14 lbs of grain. Are we being more efficient when we sparge to make up the difference via maxi-biab method while they (the 3 vessel folks) may have to make up some difference with plain water in the fermenter at the end of their brew day? At this point I know I can take 8-12 lbs of grain and turn it into beer but would like to work out some of the finer points. To rephrase; how come maxibiab brewing can turn 8-10 lbs of grain into 5 gallons of beer when most recipes use 14 or more lbs of grain for a "5 gallon batch"? Is this a detail I shouldn't get hung up on?
My batch is finishing out it's fermenting and should be bottled by this weekend. :champ: I can update when I bottle then again when I taste.


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Post by joshua » 5 years ago

Good Day Cascades, I'm not much for computer programs, But 9-10 pounds of simple Pale grains wheat/barley/pilsner/6 row, etc. can make 5+gallons of 1.050+-.002 of wort into the FV everytime.
A simple collender sitting on the Kettle with a bag draining and spargeing while the boil is starting, is not to far from 3V idaes. The Mash likes to rest at 153F for maximum extract, So if your get the max. extract, and rinse/sparge you wont waste much grains.

As far as the Point per pound per gallon stuff, 10 pounds of "32 point" grains is 320 points. Divide that by 5 gallons, you get 64 point of Specific gravity or 1.064. This is the theoretical value you coold get.
Really not to tough to get, if everything works out correctly!
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