'Water Added before the Boil' vs. 'Water used in a Sparge'

Any method that is not a 'full-volume' mash. Usually, but not always, requires more than a single vessel or heat source. Includes traditional, three-vessel brewing.
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'Water Added before the Boil' vs. 'Water used in a Sparge'

Post by Kangarooster » 1 year ago

Hello,

So if you're going to add water before the boil, why don't you just use that water to sparge with? Why would anyone, ever, want to NOT sparge? Am I missing something? Because both options are available in Biabacus. I can understand if someone wants to add water during the boil or in the fermentor, however the only difference between adding before the boil and sparging is that in the latter you pour the water through your grain bag...

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Post by Lumpy5oh » 1 year ago

I haven't added water as a sparge or preboil; but I would imagine the difference would be in deciding before brew day in the recipe to add water (definitely sparge here) or finding out after pulling the bag that you need to add water preboil. Some people may not be equipped to hold the grains up in order to sparge.
Like I said I haven't needed to add so hopefully someone can verify why.
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Post by Scott » 1 year ago

Kangarooster...why not do a full volume BIAB mash? If so, no reason to do a traditional 3V sparge.

Active sparging is an additional step... Extra stuff, pump, hoses etc. to get dirty and need cleaned. And with full volume BIAB mash, it isn't needed...

With traditional full volume BIAB, if I needed more water before the boil - like I somehow mismeasured and caught it before the boil - I would just add it to the mash. And yeah, while the grain is still in / as early as possible is best. And it would contribute to the "passive sparge", think Pat calls it, of the full volume BIAB mash.

At the end of the boil, I add water only when my OG is too high and I need to dilute the wort prior to fermentation.

Hope I understood you properly and that this answer helps. :peace:


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Post by Kangarooster » 1 year ago

Thank you for your answers. :)

Being a beginner, I thought sparging was simply to pour water over the grains. Didn't know it involved using extra equipment such as pumps and hoses.

And furthermore, and I realize that I should have mentioned this in my first post, I was only referring to the situation where you have a too small kettle (like me), and dilute in order to get more beer.

Edit: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3533#p52521 gave me more insight.


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Post by Scott » 1 year ago

Oh...then in the case of a too small pot, where you need to build a thicker wort because your pot is not large enough I would just add the extra water (dilute) AFTER the boil so that you do not boil over.

And I guess for your sparging you could pour into a pitcher and pour over the top... Best in my opinion to just use as much water as you can / the most water that can safely fit inside the pot. Be as close to Full Volume as possible. Then top up after the boil or in the fermenter.

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Post by ShorePoints » 1 year ago

Your concept of sparging is still valid as the simplest version of all. See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4&start=50#p47272 for some discussions on sparging. If your kettle is maxed out with grains and water, you can use Section W (up to a limit discussed elsewhere) and heat that "water used in a sparge" in a separate pot and upon pulling the bag of hot wet grains and either safely supporting it above your kettle OR putting the grain bag in a third pot, pour the hot water over the grains and then return the output of water to the main kettle right away. I have done that with 2 - 3 L sparge water (Sect. W) and found that for a 5 gallon VIF batch, I get one 12 oz (350 ml) bottle more than if I did not do it. I stopped doing it. It is up to you to decide whether or not you want to do it - the cool thing about BIABacus is that it helps either way.

Found one post where MS (Mad Scientist) says limit {edited after correction below} adding water to under 15% of total water viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3579&p=53155&hilit=+loss+AA#p53155
Last edited by ShorePoints on 09 May 2016, 20:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Mad_Scientist » 1 year ago

Mad_Scientist wrote: Then after your brew is over and you (we) find ourselves higher in gravity (which is normal), you can choose to dilute up to 15% water to hit your SG.
Actually said after the brew, so that's post-boil.

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Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 09 May 2016, 11:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by mally » 1 year ago

One thing springs to mind kangarooster;
I may have read this or made it up, but some people believe the wort quality is better by diluting rather than sparging. :dunno:

The important thing though is that the BIABacus caters for all!
The calculations are considered, sparging is the same as FVM (I think), dilutions will affect efficiencies.
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Post by ShorePoints » 1 year ago

Oops, MS corrected me above. You might find more accurate sparge limits by trying the search function. I saw posts from stux with large hypotheticals when I searched "sparge limit" Sparging can work for you as long as you want to do the work for it.


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Post by PistolPatch » 1 year ago

Kangarooster wrote:Thank you for your answers. :)

Being a beginner, I thought sparging was simply to pour water over the grains. Didn't know it involved using extra equipment such as pumps and hoses.

And furthermore, and I realize that I should have mentioned this in my first post, I was only referring to the situation where you have a too small kettle (like me), and dilute in order to get more beer.

Edit: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3533#p52521 gave me more insight.
It can all get very confusing Roo :).

I'm really glad you found that link above. I'll ask for it to be unlocked now as I don't think I can see anything there I need to correct.

mally wasn't imagining things when he wrote above about on wort quality with pre-boil dilution versus sparging. This method of improving wort quality was called the "no sparging" technique (defined correctly here.) This quickly became confused with full-volume BIAB but they are not the same thing at all.

Another set of three posts that might help begin here. The third post is #71 in that thread.

It's a hard area but I hope that the posts above and this post will help you make sense of it all.

;)
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 09 May 2016, 21:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Kangarooster » 1 year ago

I will look in to it PistolPatch!

Thanks all for your replies - much appreciated! :)

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