What about this sparge method?

Any method that is not a 'full-volume' mash. Usually, but not always, requires more than a single vessel or heat source. Includes traditional, three-vessel brewing.
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What about this sparge method?

Post by Epimetheus » 5 years ago

What if I did a partial sparge through the brew kettle?

The efficiency is not what I would like, it is near 50%. The mash is probably too thick at 1.5 qt/lb.

The limitation is a 32qt / 30l pot, and a desire to create 5 gal batches.
  1. Add a spigot to the kettle
  2. Add a grid to keep the bag out of the spigot
  3. mash at 2 qt/lb
  4. drain into the bottling bucket (which has a spigot for return)
  5. batch sparge right through the kettle with 2 gallons of make-up water to 6 gallons
  6. remove bag, return wort to kettle for the boil
OK, it is not pure BIAB, but I don't have to lift and hold hot grain so it seems a reasonable trade-off. If it works.
Last edited by Epimetheus on 15 Dec 2012, 12:55, edited 2 times in total.
I should have thought of that.


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Post by PistolPatch » 5 years ago

There's nothing wrong with that idea at all Epi however I think you will still have to use a bit of top-up water. Let's consider a 1.050 brew where you want a "Volume into Fermentor" of 19 L (5gal). Let's also assume a 90 minute boil and a pot diameter of 34 cm (13.4 in) and that you use a hop sock to minimise trub. Here's what your numbers will look like in the draft BIABAcus if you did a full-volume mash...
Volumes.JPG
As you already know, your kettle is too small to do this. While sparging in the manner you describe will solve the 'Mash Volume' exceeding your kettle size it does not solve the fact that the "Volume into Kettle" is too high to do safely without boiling over.

Here's how I'd handle it...

Firstly forget your traditional mashing ratios. Concentrate on putting as much water as you can into your mash. Efficiency is mainly affected by how much water contacts the grain, not when. So, in this scenario, I would sparge with 5 L (1.85 G)and top up during the boil with 2 L (1.3 G) as soon as is possible. Now your volumes will look like this....
Volumes2.JPG
If you're wondering why the numbers between VIK and EOBV-A don't add up, remember that you will be adding those 2 L in during the boil.

Also...

Remember that there are several different types of efficiency measurements. Here's what the BIABacus predicts for this brew...
Efficiencies.JPG
See how EIK and EOBE are identical and are much higher than EIF? The most important efficiency measurements to focus on are EIK and EOBE as these figures are undistorted by kettle trub. EIK and EOBE tell you if you have a mashing problem. A low EIF however could mean you have a mashing problem, a trub management problem or both.

I'm assuming that when you mentiuoned 50%, you meant EIF. The only situation where a 50% EIF would be normal is in the case of an extremely high gravity brew so there defintiely is a problem.

I think if you go with the above figures, assuming I have made the right assumptions on the gravity brew you will be doing and your evaporatin rate, your figures will improve dramatically.

Let me know if you have any questions on the above. As usual, I have probably written too much in one hit*.

:P
PP

* I actually have more to say (believe it or not) on how to go about sparging easily with the equipment you have. You'll be able to avoid putting a spigot on your kettle.
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 15 Dec 2012, 14:10, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by thughes » 5 years ago

Are my eyes deceiving me or are those figures also being displayed in the King's measurement system? Woot! Can't wait for that puppy to be released to the masses. Image
Last edited by thughes on 15 Dec 2012, 22:33, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by PistolPatch » 5 years ago

[Off-topic to thughes...]

Aaargh, it's a bit annoying Todd as while they are displayed in the King's measurements, you'll still have to input litres etc.

stux actually got the whole ball rolling with being able to input either metric or imperial or US ages ago. His work there stayed with the BIABacus development until we realised that anything that involved a macro seemed to cause a heap of trouble for a significant percentage of betas depending on their platform and software version.

That's one of the many annoying/frustrating things that have depressed us in the BIABacus - a great feature like that gone! In fact, a failure of macros lead to the whole BIABacus having to be scrapped, re-designed and re-written from scratch since about April this year. What fun! :roll:

It's mainly all good though...

The good thing though is that whether you from the US gives a recipe to me in metric land or vice versa, you basically only have to change a few numbers. If writing a recipe from scratch, and you are from the US there will be a bit more fiddling though. Unfortunately it is the best we can do for now.

The great thing though is that now that the basic structure/thinking is sound, if anyone wants to put the time into developing the BIABAcus, making it more versatile is relatively simple. (For example, the damn thing even already works for traditional brewers!) Changing it to a US input with metric display would only take a few weeks.

Best thing though would be to see a team here help Kostas be able to turn it into a real program before other buggers pinch all the revolutionary features. And, there are heaps of these!!!

Fingers crossed that members here and other brewers will be able to over-look the obvious limitations and enjoy the revolutionary side. Personally I have no idea what will happen.

:interesting:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 15 Dec 2012, 23:34, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by thughes » 5 years ago

I'm trying to force myself to get with the program and go metric.....so far I've configured BeerSmith to use grams as the default measurment for hops!
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Post by joshua » 5 years ago

Maybe the "metric or imperial or US" thing is why we used "0.0%" of grains in a recipe.

So you can make your own Pounds, Kilos, Stones or whatever.

If I had a "Drain" on my Kettle, It would make the "Sparge" easier.

Drain, sparge, pull the bag, add the 1st runnings. Simple.
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Post by Epimetheus » 5 years ago

PistolPatch, thank you for the detailed info. I will follow your suggestion and calculate the strike water volume and temperature to nearly fill the kettle when the grain is added. :salute: Actually, I need to mash only the 2-row, about 4kg. The 1 to 1.5 kg of crystal can be steeped after the mash and before the boil, right?

The extra water mass should help maintain the temperature. Bonus. The hop sack and grain bag together create almost no trub. The whole hop flowers from a neighbor's farm absorb an amazing amount of water. I do top off during and after the boil as needed.

So I will add the valve because it is much easier than siphoning. Max out the mash. Do a simple partial sparge. Top off as needed. And try no-chill. Let's see how much time and transferring I can cut from brew day.

Just sampled my very first AG batch, bottled last month. I had no idea ale could smell so floral and have so many layers of flavor. It's only my first batch so I don't know if compares well with other HB, but it beats the store-bought all hollow.

Next batch will be a porter. The local malt house said they would try to create diastatic brown malt. (I can get it warm from the roaster and mash it the same day ;) ) Please do point me toward any favorite porter recipes.
Last edited by Epimetheus on 16 Dec 2012, 06:17, edited 2 times in total.
I should have thought of that.


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Post by joshua » 5 years ago

PP, I liked this one, but changed to hops, a few times to the ones I prefer!!!

http://www.brew-monkey.com/recipes/html ... bustus.htm
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Post by PistolPatch » 5 years ago

joshua: You will be able to put in percents for the grains so that's okay. Very impressed Todd is learning metric :P.

Epimetheus: Yep, the crystals and roasts can be steeped after the mash. For some strange reason, roasts (not sure on crystals), seem to come out stronger when you do this.

The thing I was going to mention above was to avoid using your bottling bucket and spigot for the sparging if you can. There's lots of lactobacillus in a mash and any sort of tap is the perfect place for them to hang out. Perhaps instead, just use a normal white, food-grade bucket. Pull your bag from the main kettle and dump it in the bucket. Add your steeping grains and sparge water to that. Let it sit for ten minutes and then drain the bag.

Also maybe think twice before putting a spigot on your kettle. Sometimes these can prove to be more work than a syphon by the time you clean them etc. A search of my posts with "tap," "spigot," "ball-valve," "infection" or "cleaning" as keywords should pull up some of the things to at least be aware of. A good syphon set-up can actually have a lot more advantages than a tap so maybe think how you can improve your current syphon set-up. I always moan about taps/spigots :lol:.

That's great to hear that you are loving the 'depth' of your first batch. Good on you!

Also can't believe you have a local maltster :shock:. Hope joshua's porter recipe above helps you out.

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 16 Dec 2012, 22:59, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by thughes » 5 years ago

I learned to convert between grams and ounces way back when I was a youth. :whistle:
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Post by Lylo » 5 years ago

Todd I'm still using the same scale that I bought in 1971! :blush:
AWOL

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