Full-Volume Variations - FVV (diluting and/or sparging)

1. How much beer can I get from my kettle?

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   First post by PistolPatch, 10 years ago

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   How much beer can I get from my kettle?
   This question is almost nearly always asked by stovetop brewers, and, therefore, I am going to use a 19L/5Gal stock pot as an example in this 'article'. Other brewers who are wanting to make enough beer to fill a 19L/5gal keg or the equivalent in bottles, will generally have bought themselves a 40 to 50 L/quart kettle which is large enough to handle that 'Volume into Packaging (VIP),' (see Clear Brewing Terminology ).
   
   This article covers the following:...

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   Hi there jayP :thumbs:. Another Perth brewer - excellent! (Subscribe to this thread .) Feel free to drop in for a beer or a brew day some time.
   
   Glad to hear you are stumbling across a bit of info that might be useful. I'm now working on the new site full-time which has two goals; the first is to make info really easy to find and the second is to get it up and running before I go broke :lol:.
   
   As for dilutions, lost in one of the posts above is... The technique of holding back water from the...
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   Last post by PistolPatch
   9 years ago
2. "No-Sparge" Definition.

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   First post by Pat, 15 years ago

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   No-sparge, mashing is a term that is commonly misunderstood and mis-used across the internet. BIAB is even sometimes referred to as a no-sparge method. This is incorrect.
   
   BIAB is a method that exposes the grist (crushed grain) to the full volume of water required in the brew at the start of the mash. Traditional methods such as batch-sparging and fly-sparging expose about half this volume to the grist at the beginning of the mash. After the mash this is drained into the kettle and then the...

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   Oh I love a good internet debate, based on semantics :)
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   Last post by hashie
   14 years ago
3. Bru'n Water For BIAB

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   First post by robertz64, 9 years ago

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   I'm wondering how to address the Sparge Water Acidification page and any other tips you may have to offer.

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   Rick, 
   I also use full volume mash and no sparge. I didn't know if the the sparging section of Bru'n Water could be ignored without changing the entire report.
   Martin Brungard said to enter actual full mash water volume and zero for sparge volume. That seems simple enough. 
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   Last post by robertz64
   9 years ago
4. 'Water Added before the Boil' vs. 'Water used in a Sparge'

   10 Replies 18575 Views

   First post by Kangarooster, 9 years ago

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   Hello,
   
   So if you're going to add water before the boil, why don't you just use that water to sparge with? Why would anyone, ever, want to NOT sparge? Am I missing something? Because both options are available in Biabacus. I can understand if someone wants to add water during the boil or in the fermentor, however the only difference between adding before the boil and sparging is that in the latter you pour the water through your grain bag...

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   I will look in to it PistolPatch!
   
   Thanks all for your replies - much appreciated! :)
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   Last post by Kangarooster
   9 years ago
5. Dilution in biab or not?

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   First post by blitz, 10 years ago

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   Hi,
   sorry if is an old debate...didn't find a clear answer.
   
   My rig is capable of 11-13g/44-50liters of finished beer, i need to do more :cry:.
   Can i make more beer concentrating the wort, with proper calculation of efficiency reduction, IBU, color darknening, etc. and adding simple water (boiled and cooled) BEFORE adding yeast?
   
   To make this simple, i want an Apa with 1,053 OG and 45IBU, want to make as much as possible.
   Doing a batch of 45 liters of wort at 1,085 OG and 70IBU, and dilute it...

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   On reflection, the 0.40 might not have been you at all Blitz. I think it might even be in one of the current official BIABacus downloads. I seem to remember it being put there to help those used to an older version understanding why their volumes no longer matched.
   
   I'm too lazy/drunk to check now but I'm pretty sure you weren't in the wrong on that. And, it's a very individual number anyway - face washer versus beach towel ;).
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   Last post by PistolPatch
   10 years ago
6. Proper way to record dilution water and volumes in BIABacus?

   17 Replies 30366 Views

   First post by youngdh, 10 years ago

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   While brewing my 3rd batch of a Guinness clone recipe yesterday using a new base malt (Irish Stout Malt from Ireland malting Company) I overshot my post-mash gravity by 10 points and undershot my volume into the kettle by about 0.2G. I added 0.8 Gallons of dilution water before the boil to bring my gravity into the kettle in line per BIABacus which brought my pre-boil volume up to 5.71G (0.64G above target pre-boil volume). My questions now are what volume should I record in BIABacus for VIK,...

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   Sort of dh but you missed one important thing. I wrote above about 65% EIK. I don't have time to re-read the whole thread but you should only be getting 65%EIK if you are doing a very high gravity beer or lots of dilutions.
   
   BIABacus calculates/guesses all this quite unpredictable stuff a lot better than you can. No other program even attempts this.
   
   Your job should be to follow the BIABacus instructions as planned and then look at things like Section P (after several/many brews) to see if...
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   Last post by youngdh
   10 years ago
7. Need help understanding section W in BIABacus

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   First post by milligan, 11 years ago

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   Hi, I am playing around with BIABacus and teasing out the max capabilities of my kettle (19 litres, 30.5cm diameter) by using a sparge in a seperate vessel. At this stage it is purely a theoretical exercise with the added bonus of learning to massage BIABacus.
   
   I am trying to work out how to fill in section W of BIABacus: If I was going to use Ralphs guide for maxiBIAB, given all its pros and cons, how would one fill out the BIABacus for that? I've tried different combinations of VIF then...

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   :luck:
   
   Let us know how it goes.
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   Last post by mally
   11 years ago
8. Mash volume to large for kettle

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   First post by Dazzbrew, 11 years ago

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   Hey guys my mate and i are going halves in some ingredients for a brew but i have a problem, Biabacus tells me that i can't fit all of my liquor & the grain in my keggle for the mash. The last time i did a large batch (35ltrs)i substituted some base malt with some DME to make it all fit, this time i want to make it all grain though. My brew pot is a keggle on a gas burner and i will be no chilling into 2 x 16.3ltr cubes.
   I have come up with 2 options of doing it so far which are as follows;...

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   The volumes/grain amounts drop when using a hop sock, simply because you don't need to make as much beer to hit your volumes. The end VFO result is the same.
   
   We calculate VAW exactly how you described, adding up the individual volumes is the most accurate way we know to measure. I also generally ignore this, once I get repeating VIF for a new recipe. Estimated VFO is generally what I pay most attention to, when I'm comfortable with a recipe.
   
   12 minutes is what I have been using for 0m hop...
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   Last post by Rick
   11 years ago
9. BIAC ! Brew in a can.

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   First post by aamcle, 12 years ago

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   I've just done a BIAC batch, I think its easier than using a bag. (Can = SS pot with mesh bottom)
   The solid sides simply make it easier to manipulate, lift it out, tap it out, quick rinse and its a hop spyder :)
   
   The only disadvantage I can think of is that it won't scale up as well, go big and it would get clumsy.
   
   I recirculated this time more as a test than for any better reason and to see it step mash. Next time I do a single temp mash the I may not bother with the recirculating , its just...

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   Thank you :)
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   Last post by Yettiman
   12 years ago
10. Adding BIAB to RIMS...Sparge Experiment

    7 Replies 17983 Views

    First post by grem, 12 years ago

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    Great Forum! I recently discovered BIAB brewing & have incorporated it into my brew day. I've been brewing 10 gallon batches of all grain on RUBY for almost three years now. A two tier, three pot system with a March pump, ice water pump, & chiller plate. The pots are 60 qt with false bottoms 3/4 off the bottom in two of them. (mash pot & boil pot) The HLT gravity feeds the mash for sparging. On some brew days I like a crowd: on others I want to be left alone. I think I found the answer for both...

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    Apologies grem, I meant to reply here last night but there has been a heatwave here and I had to take on a lot of coolant but after doing so ran out of fuel :interesting:.
    
    There's several things that you have written above that deserve a good reply. I just looked at the clock though and I really have to go. Can I ask you to do the following?
    
    Wade through the post I just wrote here . You may not think it relates here but it does.
    
    I'll try and reply better in the next day or two*.
    
    ;)
    PP...
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    Last post by grem
    12 years ago
11. Counter Top Brutus 20 two vessel BIAB?

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    First post by aamcle, 12 years ago

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    Introduction.
    
    The Brutus 20 is a a Full Volume Recirculating System, you could think of it as a two vessel BIAB, specifically built to be as kitchen friendly as possible. The number of hose changes (connect/disconnect) is minimized, you don't need to lift a heavy bag dripping scalding liquid!, as an added bonus it packs up neatly and the wort runs clear into the kettle.
    
    I don't take credit for this design I copied it, links to the original are at the end of this post I built with what I could...

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    Pretty impressive system aamcle! At one point I had a system very similar, as did a lot of other members here. We all eventually got tired of the additional space requirements, hardware, costs, cleaning, hose changes, etc. and adopted a simple one bag & one pot approach (BIAB). There are an infinite number of ways to make great beer and we each settle upon a method that works best for us. Keep on brewing!
    
    --Todd
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    Last post by thughes
    12 years ago
12. Not quite MAXI / Sparge / Thicker mash efficiency question

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    First post by laserghost, 12 years ago

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    Hi guys, sorry if this has been covered but I did not find a clear answer in the search.
    
    I typically do standard BIAB in my 47 L (50 qt) kettle and 20.8 L (5.5 gal) wort into fermentor. I want to do a split batch and start out with as much boil volume as possible, around 41.6 L (11 gal), which should let me split about 32 L (8.5 gal) of wort.
    
    I'm not trying to continually top up during the boil, but simply start with a full kettle. I was thinking I could mash with the maximum kettle capacity,...

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    No probs lg. The fine bag needs a gradual pull just because they take more time to drain. Same principle as if you had a bucket of water and had it draining through a half inch hole versus an inch hole. I reckon concentrate on the pulley thing rather than making a new bag.
    
    I would imagine that a coarser bag is more likely to give you black char but then again, I think all eBIABers get black char. Could be worth starting a new, 'Black Char' thread in the Electric BIAB forum. Why not?
    
    ;)
    PP
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    Last post by PistolPatch
    12 years ago
13. Maxi-BIAB - boiling extra wort separately?

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    First post by SpamNMash, 12 years ago

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    So I'm thinking of having a crack at Maxi-BIAB this evening. My electric urn is 17L, so I probably won't be able to fit all the extra wort in it for the the boil. Could I just boil the extra stuff on the hob and add it with the rest into the FV? If so, would it be better to use all the hops in the main boil, or split them by ratio between the two boils?
    
    (Apologies if this has come up before, I couldn't find anything in search)
    
    Cheers!

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    SpamNMash,
    
    Nothing ventured nothing gained! Brewing is very forgiving. Do what you have to do just do it cleanly with sanitized equipment when dealing with the cooled wort!
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    Last post by BobBrews
    12 years ago
14. When to add top up water

    2 Replies 13558 Views

    First post by alanem, 12 years ago

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    I keep getting a sort of bitter taste with most of my brews and I'm just not sure what it is, so I thought maybe a bigger brew may be the answer.
    I mash/brew in a 19ltr SS kettle for a usual 10ltr brew of a basic APA or a Dr Smurto DSJA but I would now like to go bigger to say a 15 ltr brew.
    I have read that a 15ltr brew is possible in a 19ltr kettle by doing a mash of say 16 ltr then while that is mashing heat up another 3 ltrs in another pot for a 10 mins rinse/sparge then using that to top...

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    Al, the basic rule with dilution is to do it as soon as you can. In other words, any time you have room in your kettle, add some water. Post-boil dilutions are the least desirable and should be minimised.
    
    The Sweet Liquor Shop posts mally linked explain how more grain is needed when dilutions are used. The hop bill is also affected. The only 'software' that handles these calculations is the BIABacus. You might need a hand with it on your first recipe. If you do, just post the recipe you want...
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    Last post by PistolPatch
    12 years ago
15. Is there a video on Min or Maxi-BIAB?

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    First post by jarvo_325, 12 years ago

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    Just wondering has anyone every made a How to Video for Mini or Maxi BIAB?
    
    I'm looking to get into this soon, mini seems fairly easy however I may struggle with the Maxi and a video would help not only me but probably heaps of others.
    
    Cheers
    
    Nick

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    Thanks guys
    
    The Maxi had me stumped for a while, I think I read it like 6-7 times but I think I know what I'm doing now.
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    Last post by jarvo_325
    12 years ago
16. Maxi BIABs 5,6,7,8

    4 Replies 14886 Views

    First post by Tarmac, 13 years ago

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    Been keeping busy since my last post and knocked out following brews.
    They're all at various stages and am planning on having a few people round next month to help drink it all:
    
    Butty Bach 'clone': a rough estimate based on the website
    Proper Job Clone: Based on info from brewery
    Bramling Cross single hop experiment
    Citra SMaSH : lightly hopped
    
    The butty clone tastes great, but after the PJ clone I will never, ever, ever, ever loose dry hop again. Nightmare.
    
    I think my original PJ clone (on...

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    Have you considered a screen on the bottom of your autosiphon. I frequently use a piece of pantyhose or cheesecloth held in place with a rubberband... all sanitized of course :lol:
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    Last post by HbgBill
    13 years ago
17. Your Feedback and Questions on Using Maxi-BIAB on Mini-BIAB.

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    First post by Ralph, 15 years ago

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    Here's the place- holder for your questions and feednack on Using Maxi-BIAB to Brew a 'Single Batch' Mini-BIAB . Fire at will! :!:

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    frederick, this is a very old thread and it needs to be closed.
    
    Thousands of files have been posted on BIABrewer.info in many different threads. This thread is very out of date. The thread it is based on also stretches kettle size and labour to extremes.
    
    The current culmination of all the work done on BIABrewer/info can be found here . The BIABacus replaces all prior spreadsheets on the site and has the power to handle the complexities of full-volume variations.
    
    Take the time to input your...
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    Last post by BIABrewer
    13 years ago
18. Full volume mash vs. Tha Dunk

    4 Replies 15054 Views

    First post by johnny_dove, 13 years ago

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    If one mashes with all water perhaps ph gets too high? If one dunk lauters = risk tannins?

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    Better keep it under 170 not worth a little extra efficiency to dunk too hot. Do you dunk or simply mash with total needed water? Grain to liquid ratio matters? Hi there johnny and welcome to the forum :peace:.
    
    Here's a few thoughts for you...
    
    1. pH of a full-volume mash is very easy to adjust but don't worry about that at this stage. Just stick to the 170-172 F (76 -78 C) mentioned above for now and you shouldn't have any problems.
    
    2. If you can full-volume mash, you should do it. There are...
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    Last post by PistolPatch
    13 years ago
19. What about this sparge method?

    10 Replies 20363 Views

    First post by Epimetheus, 13 years ago

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    What if I did a partial sparge through the brew kettle?
    
    The efficiency is not what I would like, it is near 50%. The mash is probably too thick at 1.5 qt/lb.
    
    The limitation is a 32qt / 30l pot, and a desire to create 5 gal batches.
    
    Add a spigot to the kettle
    Add a grid to keep the bag out of the spigot
    mash at 2 qt/lb
    drain into the bottling bucket (which has a spigot for return)
    batch sparge right through the kettle with 2 gallons of make-up water to 6 gallons
    remove bag, return wort...

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    Todd I'm still using the same scale that I bought in 1971! :blush:
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    Last post by Lylo
    13 years ago
20. Maxi BIAB#4 Summer Lightning

    7 Replies 16673 Views

    First post by Tarmac, 13 years ago

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    Will be trying this one out this weekend using my usual method.
    
    I'm also going to try hopbursting this recipe rather than following the traditional method.
    I'll start adding hops with only 20 minutes left on the boil which should produce a more rounded bitterness, loads of hop flavour and aroma.
    (So I'm told).
    
    Also means it doesn't affect any timings hugely when I stick the immersion cooler in have to bring it back to the boil.
    
    So far I've had high and low effiency from the same batch of...

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    I have archives to June of 05. At about 48 shows per year and 3 hrs/show it will take me a lot of road trips to get thru them all!
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    Last post by Lylo
    13 years ago
21. Maxi BIAB#3 DBHG

    3 Replies 12860 Views

    First post by Tarmac, 13 years ago

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    Here’s my first ever original recipe.
    It’s a citra/ekg blend which should hopefully be nicely balanced with some fruity tones from the citra.
    Due to the two types of hops used and my other hobbies I've decided to call it: Double Barrelled Hopgun :shoot:
    
    Even though I have a 33 litre pot I’m doing a maxi style brew.
    
    I’ve told the maxi calc that I only have a 24 litre pot for three reasons:
    1)Using up some ingredients before I order more (hence the 16.5 litre brew length).
    2)The Maris Otter...

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    I wonder what's going on with the plastic taste? A good fermentor should not impart any plastic flavours so I am thinking you need to look at changing the fermnetor tap (possible infection). Also make sure you are not using vinyl hose for any transfers to or from your fermentor. (If you keg, there is another possible issue). Also, make sure you are using both an alkaline and an acid in your cleaning/satiation process. Not dong so can bite you on the bum a year or so after you start brewing....
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    Last post by PistolPatch
    13 years ago
22. First Maxi Biab - Please have a look!

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    First post by Tarmac, 13 years ago

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    My grain finally showed up yesterday so I'm planning this one for the weekend.
    Got a bit of a shock when I saw just how big a bag of 5kg of grain is! Made me wonder if my pot will hold it :interesting:
    
    Could someone have a look at this and see if I've done everything properly?
    Cheers :)

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    I only bought two bags of 5kg and have had low efficiency from both batches. As they were my first I expected it to be honest.
    
    I've attached my calculator with my efficiency data entered. Not great.
    
    I did an 8 litre dunk sparge which sat for 20 minutes and came out at 1.020 and that all gradually went into the boil.
    Gravity readings done at 50 degrees and then converted using Beer Alchemy for the most part.
    
    Still not sure where my extra 3 litres went... maybe my evaporation rate needs upping...
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    Last post by Tarmac
    13 years ago
23. First max-biab and have very high OG?

    2 Replies 12733 Views

    First post by cbehr, 13 years ago

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    I've done several normal BIAB batches including this recipe but it was scaled down to make a 3g batch. I liked the beer so much I wanted to make a 5g batch and figured I'd give this max method a shot.
    
    I followed the guide exactly(except I mashed out @ 170) and was happy hitting the mash & sparge temperatures within a degree. Here is the recipe, rather simple Kolsch. Recipe estimates an OG of 1.052 but I came to 1.064 and that's after adding 1 gallon of water at the end.
    
    6.00 2 row Pils Malt...

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    It's not uncommon to get very high efficiency into the kettle with BIAB cbehr however this brew looks to be a measurement anomaly of some sort and they happen all the time. I remember one brewer asking me about this a few years ago and I said, Definitely looks like a measurement error. He was positive that all his measurements were spot on. About 3 weeks later he emailed me with some weighing area he had just discovered he had only just discovered.
    
    Even if you do weight your grain correctly...
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    Last post by PistolPatch
    13 years ago
24. SIAB ... !

    6 Replies 17004 Views

    First post by Gyro, 13 years ago

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    I've now 'gone beyond' BIAB into SIAB ...
    
    Strain In A Bag.
    
    Normal procedure for me now is to mash in a 24l picnic cooler with no bag (normally about 12l water against 4-6kgs grain). Once my 60 -90 mins are up, I have a 15l bucket which I've drilled a hole in the side at the bottom, with a rubber grommet and a length of siphoning tube firmly in place. I have a cake rack in the bottom of the bucket and then place bag inside and secure against the rim as normal. Then, simply pour my wort -...

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    I normally close the FV and wait for it to cool down. Sometimes in a bath of cold water, or sometimes I just wait the few hours or overnight.
    
    Told you I'm not very scientific......
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    Last post by Gyro
    13 years ago
25. Boil Time for MaxiBIAB Sparge?

    17 Replies 31579 Views

    First post by ZenGeek, 13 years ago

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    So I've been thinking that the easiest (cheapest) way to jump into BIAB would be by doing MaxiBIAB (5kg in 19-20L pot once I find one), with dunk sparge in buckets.
    
    I just have a question about adding the sparge water to the boil. Most of the AG material that I've read reccommends boiling for at least 60 mins for various reasons. With the MaxiBIAB method, sparge is added over the course of the boil to replace evap, and some of it won't be in there for the full 60 mins.
    
    Is this a problem, or...

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    Hi there Tia,
    
    The opposite of my quote above is also true... The lower gravity wort you brew, the higher efficiency you will get.
    
    The easiest analogy I can think of is washing dirty clothes. A high gravity wort you could think of as being a washing machine full of dirty clothes. A low gravity wort could be thought of as a washing machine with one dirty T-shirt. The one-dirty T-shirt is bound to come out clean. The other load will still retain some dirt.
    
    So, it's basically a water to grain...
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    Last post by PistolPatch
    13 years ago