Tweaking stuff

Post #1 made 1 year ago
I keep refining my APA recipe, and I’ll be changing two things on my next batch: making a late addition of hops for both flavor and some modified bitterness, and dropping the Crystal Malt from 60 to 15 to lessen the caramel flavor I've been getting. The caramel flavor has been too noticeable, overpowering the other beer flavors I’m looking for, thus the reason for reducing the Crystal Malt.
By changing from Crystal 60L to 15L, while keeping the % of Crystal malt the same in relation to the grain, I drop the EBC of the beer. So in order to increase the EBC back to a mid range for an APA, I'm thinking of adding a small amount of Black Patent (I’m looking for an EBC of around 18). I don't think this is a big deal, but I want to throw this out to other BIABers as I’ve not used Black Patent before. I’m pretty sure that my HBS will want to grind the Black Patent in with the rest of the grain. I’ve read that Black Patent can give off a burnt flavor if mashed with the rest of the grains and then boiled, but this is such a small amount that I doubt it will matter. I could ask the HBS to set the Black Patent aside - I’m just curious if you all think it’s worth worrying about.
I’ve attached my BIABacus for this batch for your review. I’ll be adding 2.2 oz of Cascade (pellets) at FO and another 2 oz when I cool the wort to 170f. It looks like the BIABacus makes adjustments to IBUs for hop additions up to 0 minutes, so I’m keeping the IBUs for this batch at 41 and my bitterness to gravity ratio at about 7. This recipe started out as a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale “clone”, thus the IBU and BGR targets.
One thing I can’t get to work is that if I keep the original grain bill, in section C, and then enter the Crystal 15 in “substitutions”, I can’t add Black Patent (EBC 1460) to the “substitution” part to make a difference on the EBC without also adding it to the Original grain bill. Is there a way to modify the EBC by changing an ingredient outside of the Original grain bill? Or should I just add the Black Patent information into the Original Grain bill and adjust the weight of the Black Patent in “substitutions” until I hit the EBC I’m looking for in section A? Or do I have something mis-entered somewhere in the BIABacus?
Thanks for looking!
Lake Alice APA Next Batch.xlsx
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Last edited by Streamer on 21 Dec 2017, 11:47, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tweaking stuff

Post #3 made 1 year ago
Hey Streamer, I agree with MS and would not use black patent malt...

One other idea to not get as sweet a character as the Crystal Malt but get some flavor and darker color - use Munich Malt to replace the Crystal. Or use some...maybe mix it 50/50 with the Crystal used in that BCS book recipe from Jamil Z, but that doesn’t change it so much... Munich Type 1, or darker and heavier toasted Type 2. (Or a blend of the two Munich’s to replace Crystal and get similar color?)

I’ve used Weyermann Munich 1 lots of times, and Great Western’s Munich some as well. Weyermann is very good. Perhaps a North American (i.e. Great Western Malt Co) Munich would taste less German, but you aren’t adding that perhaps either would be okay. (Taste the Malt and compare...see what you think). My German Dunkles Bock is mostly comprised of Weyermann Munich 1 Malt. I’ve never used Munich in an APA - but this is what I would do if trying to reduce that sweet Crystal Malt taste and keep similar overall character. I’ve actually been toying with using it (or a mixture of Crystal & Munich) in my next IPA) but haven’t put together the recipe yet.

No way to skip the items on the Left side -but that’s okay. Just build your own tweaked recipe on that side. Play with it. And can do percentages with amounts all adding up to 100 (for 100%). Then on the Right side -what would you do - it all works out. (EDIT: looks like MS already suggested that ;) ).

Take a look and if this makes sense maybe repost your BIABacus.(?). Been a long day and I’m about out of creativity. :dunno: Let me know what you think and if questions.
Last edited by Scott on 21 Dec 2017, 14:28, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tweaking stuff

Post #4 made 1 year ago
Related... An article that I read. Boneyard Brewery from Bend, Oregon. Their super popular IPA is Boneyard RPM. But it was formulated early on in the Brewer’s Journey when he was a home brewer. Now he considers it too sweet with too much Crystal Malt for his taste. He now recommends blending with Munich or possibly some lighter Vienna. And if you want it darker “add a few black kernels on top”... Perhaps that is more inline with what you were thinking. (?). I would be careful to not add too much for sure. Anyhow I bookmarked the article some months ago and thought the ideas pertained here. APA and IPA are related. ... eyard-way/
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Re: Tweaking stuff

Post #5 made 1 year ago
MS and Scott, thank you for your replies. MS, It took me some thought but it finally hit me what you were saying about percentages. Yes, I'll start playing with that.
Scott, that article is pretty interesting. I hadn't considered dropping the Crystal altogether and bringing in another malt, but I agree with Tony Lawrence about sweetness masking other flavors. I may drop Crystal altogether and substitute another malt - looks like I've got some research to do, and pretty darned quick.
I'm actually surprised that Sierra Nevada uses Crystal, as I don't get that caramel/sweetness overpowering the other flavors of their beer - the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale flavor profile is what I keep refining for.

Anyway, thanks again for both your input!
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