The below is something I started writing a few nights ago but didn't post as I was tired/drunk/too short on time to check it well or, maybe all three? As explained here
, I'm stuck for time for an indefinite period so the below is the best I can help here atm.
[EDIT: Just had a quick read over and I remember why I didn't post it - way too rambly. But, it actually might answer the questions asked above except for mally
's question re PR 1.1E and 1.3. mally, can you post both your files with some notes to the recipe conversion thread? If you can describe the discrepancies, it might trigger my brain into what was happening at that time.] Here you go...
There are a few questions above asked of both me and Pat (the Admin one). Either one of us can probably answer those questions as we have discussed them.
Hopefully you and he won't mind me trying to get this thread up to date although he'd probably do it in less words
Some pretty nice posts above. I'd love to comment on each and every one because I do like the thinking. (Will probably send a PM to one of you on one thing.)
Anyway, as far as we can see, it looks like EOBV-H and EOBV-A is the winner so far.
Hold on, how can that be a winner when we have added a letter to one term?
Well, as hard as those who have worked on the terminology have tried to make things shorter, the primary goal has always been to remove ambiguity. EOBV versus EOBV-A always allowed ambiguity when it came to EOBV.
I'm not too sure how many readers of this will be aware of how much work behind the scenes here is aimed at forcing the reader to ask the right questions but changing EOBV to EOBV-H falls in line with this goal.
Any other ideas above were rejected as the abbreviation was no shorter. Definitely still open to ideas though!
Adding Comments to Labels
I know this is possible because I personally did it on one of the earlier BIABacus versions. I think there were 180 labels I had to add a comment to back then. What happened? Well, every time the file was opened by another user, the comments seemed to get re-sized and became unreadable. I won't say how many hours just that one little adventure cost
But, we also learned something!
Firstly, when the comments were written into the sheet, they'd pop up all the time. Who wants that? It's just bloody annoying. Nearly all labels are self-explanatory anyway. I remember writing comments that were basically just a copy of the label
Secondly, once we get the help written, the user will only have to click on the ? for the section and will go to a thread that not only explains the terminology but also gives detail, if required, on what that terminology does/affects.
Most of the terminology is pretty self-explanatory anyway. See the six terms written at the end of this post
Re Suggestion of Forcing Users to Read Certain Threads.
Ah, that was you mally! I loved that post (seriously) but
Apart from BIABrewer.info lacking the technical skills to incorporate your suggestion, your suggestion has been tested in a few ways by BIABrewer.info since the site began. The whole 'first post' thing is one example of that testing. (Pat tells me there have been a few variations to that process over the years but the end result is apparently still the same). Obviously, the whole 'first post' thing is aimed at getting genuine and constructive members into the community. Anyone can be genuine and constructive by... Just deleted what I had written as being a constructive member here can take so many shapes. Instead, it is much easier to write what a non-constructive member is but even this is a generalisation. Nup, can't write anything on a non-constructive member either. Hold on! Just thought of something! I think a constructive member reads and writes carefully.
Never meant to write so much sorry and am getting tired. I do remember though when starting this section that the main thing I wanted to say was how confusing I found brewing forums/software when I first started out. One bit of credit I do give myself is that I do question things but even with that quality, I still passed on false information for at least several years. (I wrote previously tonight on 'errors of ignorance' if you want more info.)
The other thing that I'm good at is remembering just how confusing all the posts etc I read in my early days were. Luckily a few brewers sent me a PM and said. "You are asking the right questions." In other words, they had given up on posting on forums because any quality posted was immediately drowned out in silliness or ignorance.
Mally, you wrote,
I hope all the "old hands" [here] don't need to know why EOBV-A is important!
Well, if BIABrewer.info and the BIABacus had been available previously, there would be no problem at all. You are one of a very few who are even aware a problem exists. Nearly all old hands here have been exposed to poor software and terminology. You'll still see some of the most valuable posters here use terms such as batch size. Why? Because they think, for a start that everyone is using the same software in the same way as they are. Why shouldn't they think that? (Of course, it gets much worse but that is enough for now
Anyway, until BIABrewer.info gets everything into place, the only thing any of us can do is bookmark any good posts we come across and hand them on. Doing that will cost you time but any time you spend handing stuff on always makes you think harder. The worst that can happen is that if yu do this often enough for a long enough time, BIABrewer will give you harder things to think on
2trout - Dumping of data.
Lol on the dumping of data from one version to another. I asked about this a few times. I think the last time I mentioned it was at the very end of this post
. (Skip the pics.)
So, you and I are both complaining about this (I know we aren't really) but your post and my post and another question asked today made me think a bit deeper.
For a start, an earlier, unpublished version of the BIABacus did enable the import and export of recipes. It relied on macros and therefore would not work cross-platform let alone within different versions of Excel/MS. (The guy who wrote that told us it would/should do the latter. I'd guess at least a year was wasted on such professional advice).
Secondly and far more importantly, I think this is not as big an issue as we think it is.
I probably look at and examine more recipes than anyone else (probably in the whole world!) so, now I have stopped complaining about this import/export lack
I probably should explain the benefits.
1. You should not be downloading recipes from any old site.
2. Even if you brew a lot, it will only take a few minutes to type an old recipe you have into a new version of the BIABacus.
3. If you have a hundred recipes stored, are you brewing those hundred recipes every week?
4. Any time you get to re-type a recipe into the BIABacus is an opportunity to consciously examine that recipe.
5. If you have more than ten recipes you trust you are doing two times better than me.
So, being forced to 'consciously' consider a recipe for a few minutes, on reflection, is probably a major advantage.
I've written a bit more about this today (well, the other day now) here
. The linked post talks about how you really have to consciously think about each brew you do and how you name it.