A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post #1 made 1 year ago
Hiya people,

I am putting on  my first BIAB this coming weekend and have never used Oats before.
Now I am not a complete stranger to grains as I have done several partial brews but this time around I am going all grain for my Oatmeal pale ale (recipe improvised from several places on the interweb and books I own).

I am not sure whether I am going to toast my oats or not

I digress my actual question is will toasting my  rolled oats to a golden hue impact IBU much and is there any major things I should be compensating for if I decided to toast or not?

Once I have tested my recipe and made sure its not a complete abomination I will be posting the recipe and corresponding BIABcus here.

Many thanks in advance.
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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post #2 made 1 year ago
ardique,
Are you sure you meant to ask about toasted oats having an impact on IBUs and not color (SRM or other unit)? I'd say that oats would not impact bitterness when either toasted to golden brown or not toasted at all - burnt, maybe. Toasted oats could make a slight difference in color while adding body and adding a toasted flavor -that is not the same as a roasted flavor. Even if your recipe has lots of toasted oats, I think any additional IBUs would go unnoticed compared to that from hops added earlier than the 40 min mark.  :think:

Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post #3 made 1 year ago
ShorePoints wrote:ardique,
Are you sure you meant to ask about toasted oats having an impact on IBUs and not color (SRM or other unit)? I'd say that oats would not impact bitterness when either toasted to golden brown or not toasted at all - burnt, maybe. Toasted oats could make a slight difference in color while adding body and adding a toasted flavor -that is not the same as a roasted flavor. Even if your recipe has lots of toasted oats, I think any additional IBUs would go unnoticed compared to that from hops added earlier than the 40 min mark.  :think:
Definitely  asking about the the IBU, I wasn't sure what/if any impact on it was caused by me toasting them beforehand. I didn't think it would be much if at all but it does not hurt to ask those who are in the know :D
I figured that if I added something that was toasted or roasted it would impact on the final colour.
Thanks for your 2c
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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post #4 made 1 year ago
I have used lightly toasted rolled oats(purchased this way from Trader Joe's) in my coconut porter recipe, and regular quick oats with absolutely no detectable difference of flavor, bitterness, OG or ferment-ability. The recipe uses oats for about 12% of the fermentables.

This is likely due to the roasted malts masking such a light toasts, but I'd imagine you would get a nutty flavor in a pale ale. It's a very subtle change, so IBU's would be the least of my worries in designing a recipe. I'd be willing to bet that even just some english base malts would cover its contribution of flavor.

I have used oats in my pales before, but have been using red wheat for so long that I completely forget the detailed reasons why I prefer it over oats. 
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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post #6 made 1 year ago
Remember that toasting will drive off water and with a lower water content, the oats will weigh less. Front load that cookie sheet with 5% or more oats by weight so you have enough to match the weight you want.
I could be wrong about that if the all-powerful BIABacus has an assumed moisture content for oats (4%) and then you change the moisture content by toasting. You could then make changes in Section Y for the difference. That difference is going to be small, but it might matter to some. :think:
Last edited by ShorePoints on 25 Jan 2017, 22:53, edited 1 time in total.

Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post #7 made 1 year ago
That's a valid point. I hadn't thought about adjusting biabacus but I did plan to roast and 20% more oats that I needed.

Thanks for reminding me.

Brew day shall be this coming Saturday so I'll let you know if anything went wrong  :cool:
Edit: assuming my new immersion chiller arrives in time :)
Last edited by arkique on 26 Jan 2017, 19:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post #8 made 1 year ago
arkique wrote:That's a valid point. I hadn't thought about adjusting biabacus but I did plan to roast and 20% more oats that I needed.

Thanks for reminding me.

Brew day shall be this coming Saturday so I'll let you know if anything went wrong  :cool:
Edit: assuming my new immersion chiller arrives in time :)
If your new immersion cooler does not arrive in time you can do what is called no-chill.
See this post by PP
You do not necessarily need a cube, you can turn off your heat source and no-chill in the kettle. I brew outdoors under a deck and when doing no-chill I cover the kettle with a sanitized cloth (binder clips around the edge) after Flame Out. It takes a while (weather/temperature dependent) to cool below 80 ºC (175 ºF) so late hop additions have to be considered and adjusted. Once the 30 L kettle contents are below 60 ºC (140ºF)* I can move it indoors (garage) where it will be safe from the wildlife overnight. The next morning, it is at pitching Temp.
*I can almost keep my hand in contact with the outside of the kettle for ~5 seconds at 60 ºC - the human thermocouple. You'll have to calibrate yours independently.

Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post #11 made 1 year ago
ShorePoints wrote:
1 year ago
You do not necessarily need a cube, you can turn off your heat source and no-chill in the kettle. I brew outdoors under a deck and when doing no-chill I cover the kettle with a sanitized cloth (binder clips around the edge) after Flame Out. It takes a while (weather/temperature dependent) to cool below 80 ºC (175 ºF) so late hop additions have to be considered and adjusted. Once the 30 L kettle contents are below 60 ºC (140ºF)* I can move it indoors (garage) where it will be safe from the wildlife overnight. The next morning, it is at pitching Temp.
*I can almost keep my hand in contact with the outside of the kettle for ~5 seconds at 60 ºC - the human thermocouple. You'll have to calibrate yours independently.
I like this idea of retaining the wort in the kettle as a no chill.

I've always thought I needed to transfer/chill/F.V as quickly as possible to minimise possible infection, and exposure to oxygen prior to fermenting. Excuse me if I'm way off the mark with this as I'll readily acknowledge my limited experience, and that I'm picking up info from many various sources.

No chill in my urn would cut out the cube step on some brews I do, and probably allow for any trub to well and truly settle out below tap level.
Plus, plus from my view, but just concerned about this oxygen factor over the time it takes to cool to pitching temp.
My brewing takes place in the shed which has reasonable ventilation, so I'm probably less concerned about any foreign materials and wild yeasts than an outside brewer.
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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post #12 made 1 year ago
Muggy, no need to worry about oxygen pre-fermentation. Many brewers purposely oxygenate the wort at this stage because it promotes better yeast health. Infection is really the only concern when doing slow chill in the kettle. As long as you keep it covered well you will most likely be fine. I just put the lid on mine and leave it out on my deck until cool, usually several hours depending on weather, haven't had any problems and have done it this way for a few years now...
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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post #13 made 1 year ago
I'll try this for my next brew, there's a f.v free for it to go straight into and I can leave the wort until it's cool enough that the f.v can handle it. Then straight into the temp fridge until it comes to pitching temp. The cubes I'll only use for when there's no f.v available.
Cheers.
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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post #14 made 3 months ago
arkique wrote:
1 year ago
I'll be toasting my own oats on brew day.
If memory serves right  approx 10% of the grain bill is oats.
I'll post more info when I get home and have access to biabacus again.
I'm a newbie here and trying to learn everything before my first brew. Learned from this post that oats should be toasted before brewing. Thanks.
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Re: A question about Oats - to toast or not?

Post #15 made 3 months ago
Welcome to the board Jason :salute:

Usually your first post needs to be made in this thread before it is approved and appears on the board.

Behind the scenes here we are writing a whole lot of stuff to make things easy for all types and levels of brewers. Today, we were writing some advice for new brewers. Above you wrote, "I'm a newbie here and trying to learn everything before my first brew." What we wrote this morning isn't published yet but I'll quote some of it here...
The reality is that making quality craft beer at home, even on your first brew, is very simple. However, a common trap when starting out is to read as much as possible from scattered sources. There is a mass of information on brewing in books, social media, magazines, forums, podcasts etc. The quality of this information can not only range from from excellent to completely incorrect but it is also generally unstructured. This exposure to such a vast mess of information is tremendously confusing whereas we want to be heading into this hobby with clarity and confidence.
It then goes on to say, "This site has been crafted so as you can do exactly that."

We aren't quite there yet, so that trap is still wide open. Oats, toasted or untoasted, are not something for you to be worried about at all. In fact, all you need to do is think of a beer you like. Research that beer as much as you can and then, start a topic that says something like, "How do I Clone [Insert Beer Style or Name]?" and someone here will let you know how to do it or, if it is a tricky beer, ask for or suggest an alternative.

So, no more posts in this thread for you Jason. Slow down and focus on what beer you actually want to brew ;)

And note that this is the longest post that [mention]Hints[/mention] has ever written so we'll look forward to you acting on the advice above.

[Please note that Hints does not reply to questions.]
Last edited by Hints on 18 Jul 2018, 22:42, edited 1 time in total.
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