IPA Brewers - What are your opinions with hop additions for IPAs?

Post #1 made 1 week ago
I am trying to formulate an easy to drink IPA recipe and would like thoughts on what I have here so far, in particular the hop timing and additions.

Looking for something around 6% ABV and probably in the neighborhood of 60 IBUs. Something that has some bitterness, but great hop flavor (so plenty of later hop additions). I like some of the fruity'ish IPA hops that have been used lately but sometimes they can be just a tad too much one side of the pendulum (too fruity and not enough bitterness). I am not wild about the super bitter straight pine IPAs. Hope Flavor and Aroma = GOOD. Healthy bitterness to balance it out is also good... Well balanced is great, and my goal.

A note on the malt. It's all from Mecca Grade here in Oregon. Trying something with no crystal. Mostly Pelton - their Pilsner malt...but some of their Vanora (Vienna) and Metolius (Munich). And 5% of their Shaniko (White Wheat) added for body and head... That is the thought anyhow. I brewed an IPA last spring to mimic a Deschutes IPA and it was pretty good but some thought it was a little too sweet.

Anyhow, haven't brewed many IPAs (only one, in fact) and would like to get some input on this... Thanks in advance!
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Last edited by Scott on 04 Jan 2018, 18:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IPA Brewers - your opinions on hop additions please...

Post #2 made 1 week ago
Wow, there are some hops in that recipe Scott. Are you using all pellets or a combination of flower and pellets? Would you expound on your decision to go with all medium-high alpha hops, vs some of the lower alpha hops as late or even post boil additions? I'm curious.

You're report back on the results of this brew in a few weeks will be very interesting! Thanks for posting this
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Re: IPA Brewers - your opinions on hop additions please...

Post #3 made 1 week ago
Yeah mostly pellet hops. All except the 2016 Centennial (Oregon / Flower hops).

Loral and El Dorado are high Alpha but capable of dual use. Lots of interesting flavor especially for IPA. Used some El Dorado in my first IPA. Yakima Valley Hops had a special on Loral. Looked interesting and could use in lagers too. New Hop variety and Had year end special when buying a pound so I threw caution to the wind and bought one, for approximately $10US...
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Re: IPA Brewers - your opinions on hop additions please...

Post #5 made 1 week ago
Streamer wrote:
1 week ago
Wow, there are some hops in that recipe Scott.
This is a great question. I've been confused on this for five years, probably longer? (I'm going to come back to streamer's quote shortly.)

Scott, you mention and describe so well, "super bitter straight pine IPAs." A lot of my brewer friends like them but I really dislike them, one of those palate things.
What I've been finding weird, over the last 5 or more years, is that I've found it harder and harder to brew something with the balance you mention. The old NRB's All Amarillo APA used to brew so well with only  of hops in a "standard" batch (say VAW). I should brew it again as I haven't done so in the last few years. I stopped brewing it for several reasons which I can list later if you want more detail.

To cut a long story short, the only "non-resiny, non-piney" fantastic IPA (besides a few local commercial brands) I've had recently were from @lukasfab . He sent me the recipes and, getting back to streamer, they had a mind-boggling amount of hops. In fact, here's a snap from his email for around  VAW.

2018-01-05_23-37-27.jpg


That's about 250 grams / 9 ounces of hops - almost 5 x that in the old NRB recipe! (Relative to VAW, Scott is proposing to use about 70% of this.)

I have some ideas on what I think might be going on here but out of time now so will just throw one of them out there for now (no idea if it has merit?)...
"Do the palates of 'hoppy' beer drinkers becoming desensitised over time?"
In other words, if I could have kept one of NRB's All Amarillo APA's that I brewed ten years ago in a 'frozen' time capsule so that nothing in it's flavour, bitterness, aroma etc., changed, would it taste as good to me now?"

:think:
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Last edited by Pat on 06 Jan 2018, 00:33, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: IPA Brewers - What are your opinions with hop additions for IPAs?

Post #6 made 1 week ago
Thanks for the thought and comments on this, gentlemen...

MS - I am going to do a 10 min Hop Stand. Almost forgot, and it is not yet on my sheet but I remembered... And the process to get max flavor without added bitterness, rapidly chill from approximately 216 deg F (102 deg C) to about 180 deg F (82 deg C). Then turn off chiller and let it sit in a Hop Stand for 10 minutes... (Seems like the last time by the time I got chiller turned off at 180, it had dropped to about 173 deg F). Then turn back on chiller and take down to yeast pitch temperature.

PP - that is an interesting thought on if our palates change... I don’t know. :scratch: I’ve never cared for the over the top bitter IPAs. That hasn’t changed for me. Have always liked pale ales and some quite hoppy...just like them to be balanced. My wife likes to say “for a guy that doesn’t like IPAs, you sure drink a lot of them”... :drink:

Streamer - The “New England IPA” thing has been hugely popular lately. That’s why I’m planning major late hop additions, comparatively light on the bittering addition, and where that idea comes from. Did this last time too but my OG was off hugely (must have been a “user error” / mis-measurement thing...). Fairly moderate early hop addition. Guess we’ll see... Hoping for the best.

Thanks again for the input.
Last edited by Scott on 06 Jan 2018, 15:04, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: IPA Brewers - What are your opinions with hop additions for IPAs?

Post #7 made 1 week ago
Lol on Mrs Scott's comment :lol:

The other thoughts I had on this whole issue were...

1. With some hops, the same variety can change significantly in bitterness, flavour and aroma from one year to the next. They can even change wildly from farm to farm in the same country in the same year.
2. On top of that, some new varieties can totally change in their character as the vines mature*. As an example, New Variety Year 1 might be tropical but New Variety Year 5 might be piney.

*I've only ever heard this from one source before (can't think of it now but it is buried in one of my posts here). The source was super-respectable.

What I'm thinking though is that we need much better reviewing of hop harvests. We probably need to start treating hops a little like we treat wine grapes. A semillon grape from 2017 in New Zealand will probably produce a totally different wine than one made with semillon grapes in 2015 from eastern Australia.

Lots could be done on this I reckon Scott and you'd be the man to lead it. (Shoot me an email!)
;) PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 07 Jan 2018, 21:09, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: IPA Brewers - What are your opinions with hop additions for IPAs?

Post #8 made 1 week ago
PistolPatch wrote: "Do the palates of 'hoppy' beer drinkers becoming desensitised over time?"
Lupulin threshold shift (google it) seems to be real! :dunno:
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Re: IPA Brewers - What are your opinions with hop additions for IPAs?

Post #9 made 6 days ago
@mally (send me an email or something to let me know if this "mention system is actually working ;) )

That is a very interesting post. I hope you, Scott or someone else will dig into it and provide a summary.
I find this fascinating... it would be a very difficult experiment to devise but maybe there's some clever way of short-circuiting the time-capsule problem I mentioned above???
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Re: IPA Brewers - What are your opinions with hop additions for IPAs?

Post #10 made 5 days ago
I too love the NEIPA style and have a "go to" recipe that I've slowly perfected. My only boil addition hops is at the beginning of the boil to get the bulk of my target 60 IBUs. I use US Magnum for that. My flavor and aroma hops are all Mosaic. I don't do any late boil or flameout hops anymore. I do a big hop stand at 180F for 45 min (where I'm sure I pickup a few IBUs). The remaining Mosaic hops goes in as a dry hop at kegging in a fine mesh bag. I let the closed keg sit at room temp for 5-7 days where I give it the occasional swirl to get more beer in contact with the hops after which I move to the beer fridge to chill and force carb. I let those hops "ride" until the keg kicks. I've never had an issue with grassy or vegetal flavors doing this and the hop aroma hits it's peak about 4-6 weeks post kegging (if the keg last that long). I've tried splitting my DH in to two additions with the first being near the end of primary fermentation to take advantage of the biotransformation effect of the yeast, but, found I lost to much aroma that way so am back to all DH at kegging. I build up my brewing water from DI water using the water profile Martin Brungard wrote about in a sidebar in the May/June 2017 issue of Zymurgy targeting Cl of 100-150mg/L and SO4 of 50-75 mg/L for NEIPAs. You water profile makes a big difference in the final product. Everyone that drinks my NEIPA says while it's hoppy it's not "in your face" dank or bitter and finishes very smooth with a lot of aroma.
Don Y
Leesburg, VA USA
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Re: IPA Brewers - What are your opinions with hop additions for IPAs?

Post #11 made 2 days ago
I’ve got to admit, at least for me it is Not necessarily Love for NEIPA (I don’t drink many; at times can be too far to one side of the pendulum). But adding elements of that sub-style to my IPAs (late hop additions, less bitterness and some fruitier hops) , should provide a more balanced IPA.

Finally brewed it yesterday. Went pretty well, except ended up with more hot break and trub than normal. Ended up with 7.5 gallons VIF. Could / Should have added the 1.25 gallons that I discarded into the fermenter, then cleared it up during Cold Crash after fermentation... The trub drops to the bottom during Cold Crash at 0 degrees. That’s what I’ve done in the past. It was late, snap decision, was kicking myself within the hour...

I Keg in 5 gallon Corney kegs, mostly, and bottle a handful of bottles. Lately have been brewing max brew sizes with brew kettle and system, depending on OG - between 7 and 9.5 gallons VIP. For extra beer I clean and sanitize plastic PET milk jugs (1 gallon and some 0.5 gallon). Keep extra beer in an outside refrigerator. Then when the keg gets low I top off or add to keg. This way I don’t have to brew quite as often. (Still winds up at around 11 times a year).

Some beer I have added to plastic pop bottles when taking out of fermenter. Think I got that tip from a PistolPatch post at one point...as they are designed to hold pressure. Probably should clean and sanitize and use 2 liter pop bottles and use them instead of the milk jugs...thinking out loud. :scratch: Except we drink very little soda...prefer keeping calories in wine and beer! :drink:
Last edited by Scott on 15 Jan 2018, 00:51, edited 2 times in total.
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