Grapefruit Pale Ale

Post #1 made 1 week ago
Hi, I would like some help with converting this recipe for BIAB. Apologies if the post is in the wrong spot. Thanks !!

OVERVIEW

Style: American Pale Ale
Name: Grapefruit Pale Ale from Mad Fermentationist
Yeast: US-05
Fermentation Temperature: 20 C
Original Gravity: 1.055
Total IBU's: 46.8
Colour (EBC): (dont care)
Efficiency at End of Boil:
Mash Length (mins): 60
Boil Length (mins): 60
Your Vessel Type (Pot/Keggle/Urn): 19l Stovepot
Source/Credits: https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2 ... ecipe.html
Notes/Instructions/Comments:

Volumes etc.

Your Vessel Volume (L or gal): 19 L
Your Vessel Diameter (cm or in): 30.5 cm
Water Required (L or gal): 16.4L
Mash Temperature (C or F): 67 C
Volume at End of Boil (L or gal): 12.13 VFO
Volume into Fermenter (L or gal): 10 L VIF
Brew Length (L or gal):
Total Grain Bill (g or oz): 2875g

Grains - Colours - Percentages and/or Weight (g or oz)

Grain 1: Pale Ale Malt (Any type) - 96.5%
Grain 2: Caravienna - 2.5%
Grain 3: AcidMalt -1.3%

Hops - AA% - IBUs - Weight (g or oz) at Minutes

0.63 oz. Cascade (Whole, 8.00% AA) @ 20 min.
0.63 oz. Chinook (Whole, 11.50% AA) @ 20 min.
0.75 oz. Cascade (Whole, 8.00% AA) @ 10 min.
0.75 oz. Chinook (Whole, 11.50% AA) @ 10 min.
2.00 oz. Cascade (Whole, 8.00% AA) @ 0 min.
1.00 oz. Chinook (Whole, 11.50% AA) @ 0 min.
2.00 oz. Cascade (Whole, 8.00% AA) @ Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Chinook (Whole, 11.50% AA) @ Dry Hop

Adjuncts/Minerals/Finings etc

1.00 Whirlfloc Fining @ 15 min.
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient @ 15 min.
4 Grapefruits zest/flesh

Fermentation

Safale US-05 for 10 days at 20 C
Dry Hop post fermentation

Notes
This is a nonspecific Batch size: 5 gallon" recipe which i have assumed means 5G into the fermenter. I want 12L VFO ( min) into my nochill cube.
If i have to buy acid malt in a larger quantity than 37 grams i will skip it.
I will 'no chill' so need to modify the hop schedule to avoid excessive bitterness.
BIABacus PR1.3U - MadFermentationists Grapefruit Pale Ale.xls
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Last edited by JayP on 08 Aug 2018, 12:24, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Grapefruit Pale Ale

Post #2 made 6 days ago
Post is in the perfect spot James ;) . (Saw your post in the other thread. Sorry to see that batch ditched but hopefully the Berliner will be excellent.)

Very long day today (and the same goes for pretty much the next seven days) but let's see if I can go through your recipe plan while my brain has some synapses still firing correctly.

The Style

You are certainly picking some advanced styles to brew :).

Got to Blasta Brewery in Burswood. They have some hugely grapefruit beers on tap atm. I've never seen it so pronounced. Nev from Online Brewing Supplies is associated with Blasta and so will know the recipes or techniques they are using so it would be worth having a chat to him. (Buy some stuff from him to make his time worth his while).

I attempted to brew a Sculpin IPA a few years back with Sarah but it was nothing special from memory so my comments below won't look at the recipe ingredients or the methodology, I'll just be checking through your BIABAcus...

Your BIABacus File

Very nice job on your BIABacus James. I think your Section W adjustments look really sensible too :salute:

- Change your boil time and mash times to 90 minutes (Perth water is really unpredictable so the 90 min boil will do no harm.) Search for a thread called "Mash Gravity Figures needed for BIABacus," and that should have some info on why a 90 minute mash is going to be safer on most grain bills.

- Good decision on the acid malt. You can't use someone else's quantities on acid malt as thee water could be completely different from yours. pH adjustment is an intermediate step in all-grain and you need a tool or two before you can make adjustments correctly. Leave pH until later down the track. (Or, if you visit Nev, he is right into pH.)

- Another good question on the, "batch size." I've had a look at the numbers and there is enough detail from the original recipe for me to conclude that the "batch size" in the recipe you are copying does mean, "Volume of Ambient Wort." That's great as it is very difficult, often impossible to determine VAW from a published recipe.

- DELETE: - In section D, delete the 46.8 on the second line. The reason for this is that the author has not indicated what IBU method they are using or the software. Search posts written by me that include the words: Garetz, Tinseth, Rager and Beersmith and you'll find a post or two with a picture that explains this problem.

- Looks like you are having a few problems other problems in in Section D. The left hand side is not matching that of the original recipe. Some additions are missing and your weights don't match the original. I'll fix that, the 60 minute problem and a few other things mentioned below in the file I'll attach to this post.

- The original recipe uses too much whirfloc and it is added at the wrong time.

- Just skimming the original source and I see that it's one of those recipes I mentioned in the other thread, a recipe someone has published before they have actually brewed it!!! I see thee are a number of comments below it but I don't have time to read them. Maybe there is some info among the comments on how the beer actually turned out????

.... Just saw that in his Notes section he has a link to how the beer turned out so make sure you read that. In the Notes section he also mentions the date he added the grapefruit and dry hops so study that as well.

- So, in Section I give detail of when grapefruit zest/flesh and dry hops will be added.

- Also try and work out what he means by grapefruit zest/flesh as they are two different things.

- I've also changed BIABrewer Link and Recipe Credits in Sections A and B. These fields might seem unimportant but for future users, it gives them immediate access to the original recipe and how we have discussed it.

This post only took me 90 minutes. I think that might be a record for me in this thread :champ:. Often they take much longer. This was quick as not only had you done a nice job on your BIABacus but, also, the original recipe had enough data to be able to interpret it fairly easily.

Nice :drink: ,
Pat
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Re: Grapefruit Pale Ale

Post #3 made 5 days ago
Thanks Pat. The amendments all make sense to me and i really appreciate your help.

( As a good cook i even have a zester which is purpose built )

What i am concerned about is that all these hop additions are late in the boil (like 20 min and 10 min), and i will no chill which i am lead to believe adds between 10 - 20 min effective time to each addition as the work remains hot for much longer. (ie a 30 min addition becomes a 45-50 min addition)

sources :

https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/no ... cts.97284/
https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/no ... ons.64542/
viewtopic.php?t=1645
and this
hop schedule no chill.JPG

One option would be to drop the cube in the 13 degree swimming pool, which from experience will drop it to 25 degrees in 30 min.
But if i let it sit overnight from 90+ degrees - I am worried it will become terribly bitter like my previous brew ? Last time i had about 50g of aroma hops in the cube and the result was undrinkable beer, after having boiling wort poured on then and then sealed for 24 hours.
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Last edited by JayP on 10 Aug 2018, 17:16, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Grapefruit Pale Ale

Post #4 made 3 days ago
Hi JayP,

I can’t say for certain but if you added hops at end of the boil - still boiling...but then stop boiling - bitterness is supposed to stop being added (isomerized) into wort when temperature drops to around 170 deg F / 76 deg C. But I use an immersion chillerand have never no-chilled, and pull out the hop bag before transferring to the fermenter.

You report having had undrinkable bitter beer after late hops that sat in the no-chill container. I would need lots more detail to take a stab at what went on there... Can you pull hops out before no- chilling the wort? Or at a very minimum, after several hours and the wort has cooled, pull the hop bag out? That would seem best from my perspective, compared to leaving vegetative matter in the wort for a long time.
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Re: Grapefruit Pale Ale

Post #5 made 2 days ago
Hi Pat,

I have been adding loose hops to my no chill cube, and it’s remains sealed until I want to ferment it.

Once sealed, you commonly let the cube naturally cool down to ambient temp which takes around 24-36 hours, or you can throw the cube into a swimming pool for example where it sinks to the bottom and can reach 20-25 degrees in about 30 min.

You can apparently store wort like this almost indefinitely as there is no air and it’s sterile. It’s the same process as how they make fresh wort kits.

I think loose hops in a cube that will be shelved are probably a bad idea.

It certainly speeds up the brew day if you no chill to a cube after the boil as that’s the end of it. Job done - Come back later. You just need to be aware of how it affects your bitterness and hop schedule.
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