My first BIAB, first AG

Post #1 made 2 months ago
I joined awhile back and used the amazing info here to build my BIAB setup (a budget rig, certainly) and have FINALLY gotten to do a true SV batch. I would appreciate any feedback on my process and in particular how I did filling out my actual numbers on BIABACUS. I have a new appreciation for the document after actually using it! The ability to measure volume in the kettle with a ruler is a game changer! So anyway.
Czech Pilsner, recipe info in BIABacus file. 90 minute mash at a target 152°F, did not maintain temperature well. Had dropped to 147°F after 20 minutes, 142°F after 60 minutes and 136°F by the end. I pulled the bag and reheated to "mashout" around 164°F for 10 minutes. This was just a shot in the dark to possibly make up for the low temperature rest for most of the mash. I was actually excited about a 77.5% efficiency on my first try. I blame a particularly windy day and lack of copious insulation for my temperature woes.
Target was 1.044 and actual was 1.040. I pulled 1 quart of the preboil wort to make a "shaken not stirred" method starter. I also had a boil over (was not ready for that AG hot break!) I also had significantly more trub than originally expected (no way to suspend my bag to make a hop sock) so not sure what my actual evaporation was. (Did I mention how windy it was?) I ended up half a gallon (2 litersish) short of my volume in fermenter target. My GIF is 1.055 just slightly above my 1.054 I'm trying to figure out how to attach the BIABacus file but keep getting a "file too large" error. Thanks for any and all insight
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Re: My first BIAB, first AG

Post #2 made 2 months ago
Dreadpiratewes - Relax, you will get beer. :drink: Congratulations on getting through your first brew. :clap:

1) Yes, the BIABacus is terrific for lots of reasons.
2) You wanted a 90 minute mash @ 152 ºF according to the recipe you were following, but experienced falling Mash Temperature due to wind and maybe a need for kettle insulation. 147 ºF after 20 min. isn't too bad, even assuming that you had measured the Temp after dough-in and stirring just before you covered your kettle. At that point (and others) you could have stirred the grist gently and applied heat to get back to 152 ºF while keeping the bag off of the kettle bottom (to avoid melting the bag). Your Temp. continued dropping over the remaining 70 min. to levels that are not optimal but the mash will still have extracted and converted sugars. It is probably why your Gravity Into Boil (GIB) is low but not horribly so. If you read elsewhere about mash times and temperatures you will see some strange theories but they manage to get beer - Pilsners most often. Next time you brew, use some kind of wrap around all but the kettle bottom after the flame is out. Check the Temp. @ 30 min, remove the wrapping and stir gently while heating back to target if the Temp. has dropped >5 ºF (~3 ºC). You get to choose how often you check and whether or not you re-heat based on experience. Next brew day, you'll have twice as much experience! I check once at 45 min. and stir. The old down comforter I use for insulation works well. Efficiency numbers are reference points for you to use making comparisons among your various batches. Do not get hung up on them, please.
3) Taking an aliquot of wort for starter sounds good. It does have an effect on GIB / VIB / VFO and VIF numbers that cancel one another out so keep that in mind. You will be able to make comparisons when you use this technique, but if you make a starter some other way, numbers will vary.
4) Mash-out temperature is always higher than mash temperature. It is inherently on the curve towards boiling. Among the reasons for "mash-out" is to lower the viscosity of the wort to improve drainage from the bag. Notice that the full bag is still immersed while heating to mash-out target. Do not melt the bag on the kettle bottom and do not heat the wet grains to a temperature where those dreaded tannins become extractible.There is an upper limit to mash-out temperature. I only do it when I have >30% rye malt in the grist. Otherwise, I pull the bag @ 90 min and heat to boil.
5) Boil-over occurs as heat is applied during the slice of time when liquid is changing to gas and proteins are precipitating simultaneously. The newly formed solid particles provide nucleation sites for gas bubbles and they all head for the surface at once. Turn the heat down immediately, but expect a repeat when you turn it on again. I have a stainless stirrer that reaches the kettle bottom. As the temperature approaches boiling, I slowly scrape the kettle bottom and rarely have any foaming problem. You cannot look away for an instant doing this. Stop when the boil is constant and continue to watch for foaming for a full minute.
6) I use a hop sock wrapped with copper wire to keep it closed and the wire is long enough to wrap a kettle handle for retrieval. It can be tricky to open it and charge more hops later, but it works.

Hope for a less windy day, and good luck. :salute:
Last edited by ShorePoints on 01 Apr 2019, 01:29, edited 1 time in total.

Re: My first BIAB, first AG

Post #3 made 2 months ago
Thanks @Dreadpiratewes for the great read and congrats on your maiden voyage. Also, thanks to @ShorePoints for his always excellent answers.
Dreadpiratewes wrote:
2 months ago
I'm trying to figure out how to attach the BIABacus file but keep getting a "file too large" error.
This worries me Pirate. I just did a test post and attached a BIABacus file with no problems. I think the first things to check are that the extension on the file is .xls (although .ods will do). Also check the file size of the BIABcus file you are uplaoding. It should be less than 500KB.

Be nice to see you being able to upload your file correctly.

Congrats again :salute: ,
PP
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Re: My first BIAB, first AG

Post #4 made 2 months ago
Oops I didnt receive notifications on your responses gents. Thanks for the insights! I'm optimistic and excited for the outcome of this brew. I am quite happy with the numbers I achieved but wanted to share my challenges with you men of great experience as I find in the world of brewing for every obstacle there are many people willing to share how they overcame that exact issue. I'm still working on the file. I had to work off of a spreadsheet app on my phone because my laptop was on the fritz. I fixed the computer (HDD to SSD upgrade!) So I will be better able to manipulate the excel file. Thanks again for the responses and I do apologize for not acknowledging them sooner. I'd hate for you to think me unappreciative.

Cheers!
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Re: My first BIAB, first AG

Post #5 made 1 month ago
Dreadpiratewes wrote:
2 months ago
Oops I didnt receive notifications on your responses gents. Thanks for the insights! ... I'd hate for you to think me unappreciative. Cheers!
Not your fault there @Dreadpiratewes . Unfortunately, if your email address is a common one such as outlook.com, gmail etc, they often bounce notification emails. I've gone through the process several times of getting white-listed to only find us getting black-listed again. It's probably due to old or inactive members still being sent notification emails. I'll see if I can solve that along with some other things I can see need repairing.

Yikes!
Pat
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Re: My first BIAB, first AG

Post #6 made 1 month ago
It has taken me way too long to get this file from my phone and onto the newly fixed computer with Excel. Surely you've all forgotten all about me after taking the time to help and me disappearing off the map... @PistolPatch you said the file should be under 500 Kb and I can't figure out why my file is 4x that size at 1.9 Mb. I may try downloading the file again and copying all the info over to see what happens. Or do we need to upload zipped attachments?
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Re: My first BIAB, first AG

Post #7 made 1 month ago
Well here's the Report at least. :headhit:

I appreciate you fellas. I'll get the hang of all this eventually.

[center]BIABacus Pre-Release 1.3U RECIPE REPORT[/center]
[center]BIAB Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler.[/center]
[center](Please visit www.biabrewer.info for the latest version.)[/center]
[center]Bohemian Pilsner - Batch A0[/center]

Recipe Overview

Brewer: Wes Credit exploringamigo
Style: Bohemian Pilsner
Source Recipe Link:
ABV: 5.6% (assumes any priming sugar used is diluted.)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.056
IBU's (Tinseth): 35
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.62
Colour: 4.2 EBC = 2.1 SRM

Kettle Efficiency (as in EIB and EAW): 82 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 70.3 %

Note: This is a Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash)

Times and Temperatures

Mash: 90 mins at 67 C = 152.6 F
Boil: 90 min
Ferment: 10 days at 11.2 C = 52.2 F

Volumes & Gravities
(Note that VAW below is the Volume at Flame-Out (VFO) less shrinkage.)
The, "Clear Brewing Terminology," thread at http://www.biabrewer.info/

Total Water Needed (TWN): 31.07 L = 8.21 G
Volume into Boil (VIB): 29.02 L = 7.67 G @ 1.044
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 22.17 L = 5.86 G @ 1.056
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 19 L = 5.02 G @ 1.056
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 18.3 L = 4.83 G @ 1.014 assuming apparent attenuation of 75 %

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)

Note: If extracts, sugars or adjuncts are not followed by an exclamation mark, go to www.biabrewer.info (needs link)

93.4% Breiss Pilsen (1.7 EBC = 0.9 SRM) 4771 grams = 10.52 pounds
6.6% Breiss Carapils (2 EBC = 1 SRM) 338 grams = 0.74 pounds

15.6 IBU Czech Saaz Pellets (2.6%AA) 55.1 grams = 1.945 ounces at 60 mins
15.9 IBU Czech Saaz Pellets (2.6%AA) 64.3 grams = 2.269 ounces at 40 mins
3.5 IBU Czech Saaz Pellets (2.6%AA) 34.5 grams = 1.216 ounces at 10 mins
0 IBU Czech Saaz Pellets (2.6%AA) 34.5 grams = 1.216 ounces at 0 mins

Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full-Volume Mash): for 90 mins at 67 C = 152.6 F

Strike Water Needed (SWN): 31.68 L = 8.37 G 67.7 C = 153.9 F
Mashout for for 10 mins at 72 C = 161.6 F

Fermentation: Saflager S-23 for 10 days at 11.2 C = 52.16 F
Diacetyl Rest: 5 days at 18 C = 64.4 F
Secondary Used: y
Crash-Chilled: y
Filtered: n
Req. Volumes of CO2: 2.5
Condition for 10 days.
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Re: My first BIAB, first AG

Post #8 made 1 month ago
Well I had to make a new file but I can finally upload my BIABacus. If anyone is still able to find the time to "grade my work" with my first BIAB(acus) attempt, you're a star!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: My first BIAB, first AG

Post #9 made 1 month ago
Hello @Dreadpiratewes,

Good job filling it out! :thumbs: For the most part it looks really good. A couple things I noticed...

Section D, for BCS Book recipes we put the VAW @ 21.77 Liters / 5.75 gallons.

And fermentation time, think you had 10 days plus d-rest, which may be a tad low for a lager. Normally I’m 14 days for a lager.

Used my iPhone to review, so is possible something else was missed that I didn’t catch. But looks like you are getting the hang of it. Sounds like you are fermenting it right now. Good job!
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Re: My first BIAB, first AG

Post #10 made 1 month ago
Thanks @Scott for looking it over. I did the "quick lager method" so I had about 8 days in before ramping up the temp to finish off. I didnt get this recipe from BCS (though my original source may have done) I also only lagered about 2 weeks before bottling. Theyve been conditioning for about 10 days now. I did try one and it's not carbed up yet. Thin from low mash temps I think and because the LHBS didnt have continental pilsner, only much lighter American pilsner malt. But it has a definite clean malt grain sweetness and (to me) a perfect pilsner hop flavor and bitterness! Cant wait til it matures, once its fully carbed I'll lager the bottles too.
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Re: My first BIAB, first AG

Post #11 made 1 month ago
I’ve never used the quick lager method, and about 2/3 my brews are lagers... :scratch: Brülosophy blog says the quick lager method - think they said they could not taste difference in outcome... Perhaps I will try in the future if need to quicker open up the fermentation chamber for another brew.

Sounds like even un-carbonated, the taste is good. Congratulations! :drink:
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Re: My first BIAB, first AG

Post #12 made 6 days ago
Just ordered the ingredients to brew the Munich Madness recipe in BCS. I plan on splitting the batch and going traditional lager method with half and fast lagering the second. All weyermann malt and wyeast 2206 with German hallertau hops for this one. I'll report back when it's done. For those that have already brewed this recipe what were your thoughts?

Cheers
Tony
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Re: My first BIAB, first AG

Post #14 made 5 days ago
Scott

Apologies, I knew when I hit submit I should have clarified for those that may not have had a chance to pick up Brewing Classic Styles. Munich Madness is a marzen consisting of:

OG: 1.055
FG: 1.015
IBU: 27
VAW: 21.83L
5lb (2.26kg) Pilsener Malt
4lb (1.81kg) Munich Malt
3lb (1.36kg) Vienna Malt
1lb (.45kg) CaraMunich 60L

Hallertau 1.5oz (43g) 4.0 Alpha @ 60
Hallertau .5oz (14g) 4.0 Alpha @ 20

Please let me know if I've forgotten something critical for those that may want to brew this one.

Cheers
Tony
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Re: My first BIAB, first AG

Post #15 made 5 days ago
Thanks Tony. I have the BCS book. It’s my most used brewing book with well worn, dog eared looking pages. For me getting what style it is helps find what you are doing a lot quicker. May not have memorized the recipe name so if we also have the style it helps connect the dots quicker.
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Re: My first BIAB, first AG

Post #16 made 5 days ago
No worries, I don't think I could remember each recipe name if I wanted to lol. Have you brewed the Belgian Dark Strong in there yet? I recently got lucky enough to have a good friend of mine bring back some Westvleteren 12 from Belgium and have been wanting to do a clone soon.

Cheers
Tony
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