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Post #8776 made 2 months ago
Welcome mkrist.

I guess a pharmacist could look at the brewing process like compounding a dosage form. After all, beer is good for your health (mostly). ;)

There is a lot of knowledge on this site, but you will have to spend time looking for some of the subjects. Read the threads that interest you (check the INDEX at upper left) and ask questions if you have any. Alternatively, you can use the SEARCH magnifying glass (upper right) and browse that way.

As for a yeasty off-flavor, consider the fermentation conditions as one possible source, including the total time involved. Pitching temperature has an impact on the initial yeast population growth and strength = what starts the whole package after it gets going. Low & slow is better than too warm and fast. The temperature conditions during fermentation (including a small exotherm) also play a part. I have had an airlock start bubbling in less than 8 hours and take as long as 36 hours (not a leak) to start. They both turned out OK.
I usually rack to a secondary fermenter (wide-mouth glass carboy) between day 6 and 9 and then wait another week before considering it finished. Check the density (Specific Gravity) when you think it is finished, wait 2 days and check it again. If it dropped 2 points then check it again in two more days. After the major part of fermentation has slowed to a crawl, the yeast needs several days to "clean up" what are still process intermediates hanging around. And it is different for every type of yeast!! :argh:
Start fermentation (ales) with low temperatures (~17 ºC) and give it time, then you might warm it slowly to near 20 ºC for a few days and maybe cool again at the finish. If you bottle the beer (not keg) a very cold "cold crash" can reduce the level of yeast you need for carbonation in the bottle making it take longer than normal to get ready to drink. Temperature after packaging is another thing.

Conversion in the mash is related to volumes of water, pH, time and temperature, grain crush size, the thread count of your BIAB bag and maybe more that I don't remember right now.

That's enough variables to think about and do experiments for many batches. Relax, you will get beer, eventually. Keep good notes!

:luck:
Last edited by ShorePoints on 13 Nov 2019, 06:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #8777 made 2 months ago
Hi Fellow Brewers,

I live in Las Vegas, Nevada, and I am a long time (~15 years) brewer....sometimes extract and sometimes all grain, the latter with a 3 vessel setup. I stumbled across this site searching for a way to simplify my brewing process and make outstanding beer while shortening my brew day. I have made a lot of beer, with some that unfortunately went down the drain because, I think, the water chemistry was not right or the wort got infected. I have made many ales and lagers, and even mead and wine, I have learned a lot to say the least. I plan to concentrate on beer now. I love this site and hope to learn from it and other brewers; the site is well organized and jam packed with information. I am a retired Electrical Engineer/Department Manager and now after a 40 year working career I finally have the time to devote to making some great beer. When I learn how I will include a picture of my current brew rig setup, and an image showing my objective - Brewing in a Basket, in a Keggle. In other words I want to brew in a single vessel (a converted beer keg) for the mash, sparge, and boil/hop using a stainless steel mesh grain basket. I am in the process of modifying my brew rig now. I have a lot of questions, primarily regarding the grain basket, before I have that fabricated. Hopefully I will find others who have gone down this path successfully that can give me some tips. My basic approach is to 1) modify my brew rig to a single vessel one with a hoist and a custom made grain basket, 2) learn how to correctly prepare the liquor chemistry for the type of beer I'm brewing, and 3) Zero in on the best brewing efficiency I can using this setup. I'll stop here and ask my questions of anyone replying that has direct experience with Brewing in a Basket, in a Keggle. Thanks in advance to anyone that made it to the end of my long first post, and for any advice and tips you can share. Cheers, Mike
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From United States of America

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Post #8778 made 2 months ago
Hello Mike,

Welcome to the site!

I have not brewed with a keggle, and have never used a brew basket. My son uses a brew basket, as do others...so certainly it works. No idea on if it works as well as the bag that most of us use. His gets much more sediment than I do. Many folks use a keggle. I have a Bayou Classic brew kettle with gallon markings on the side - which I find very useful...except their measurements are slightly wrong and I have to have a cheat sheet to help correct it. Checking remaining volume could be a little more challenging with a keggle, but using a yard stick to check remaining contents rather than reading number on the side should be fairly easy...

With using the BIABacus file to help plan and conduct a brew session is super helpful! When using it we check things such volume in the pot at different times, along at checking gravity at certain points. These are like “check points” to me that can give me an indication if something is off course, so that I can take corrective action mid brew.

I would recommend checking out the BIABacus file along with the Clear Brewing Terminology Page on this site. CBT explains the terminology and helps connect the dots. Being an engineer, no doubt you will like these.

BIABacus File: https://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1869
CBT: https://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2685

Let us know how it goes, plus if you have any questions..
    • SVA Brewer With Over 50 Brews From United States of America

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Post #8780 made 2 months ago
Gday All,
My name is Nick, I’m from Melbourne, Australia.
I found a link to this site In an article I was reading on Brulosophy.
Pretty happy I came across it as there seems to be heaps of info, that will come in handy.
I’m still a newbie at this stage I have bottles 2 extract brews and have 1 batch bottle conditioning at the moment.
I’m looking at getting into all grain brewing and BIAB seems to be a great way to get into it.
Cheers and happy brewing,
Nick.

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Post #8781 made 2 months ago
Howdy everyone. Obviously a new member. I'm actually just beginning my journey having never brewed beer before!

1. Where are you from?
Currently in Australia but from the US.
2. How did you stumble across the site?
A friend of mine who's been brewing for quite a while is a big fan of the site brulosophy.com. After checking that site out there's an old post about BIAB that references this site as a great source of info about BIAB (http://brulosophy.com/2014/04/25/brew-i ... very-easy/).
3. What you think of it so far?
I'm fairly new and thus haven't seen too much just yet, however some reading has already helped with prepping for my first mini BIAB.
4. Have you brewed at all before. If so, for how long and what method are you currently using?
Nope, looking forward to my first time in the next 2-3 weeks.
5. Do you work? Are you retired or maybe you run a household?
Work full time, so this is my soon-to-be new weekend hobby.

Thanks in advance for any future help and looking forward to getting deeper into the hobby and possibly contributing/helping future new members.
    • SVA Brewer From United States of America

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Post #8782 made 2 months ago
Hello @Jonah15 and @brew.noob

Welcome to the forum! There are some recommendations with the BIABacus and terminologies section, a few posts up.

Let us know what questions you have... Definitely having the right equipment is import. There is much help already listed on here in different places and if you have any specific questions go ahead and ask.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 50 Brews From United States of America

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Post #8783 made 1 month ago
Hi all ~ returning brewer after 20 years lapse.
Used to brew with a 10 gallon boiler and numerous plastic buckets, but I'm now attracted to brewing with a Peco 5 gallon boiler (and fermenting bin) BIAB.
Two brews under my belt with this system.
Can't believe how much good info there is now ~ info was in very short supply when I last brewed (pre-internet)
Cheers! :drink:

Martyn
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Post #8784 made 1 month ago
Hello @biabolo ,

Welcome to the forum, from another guy that used to brew and took...about 16 years off. My previous brewing was all extract and was decent but not great. Coming back to brewing much older I started again with extract and it was better but I wanted better yet...and wanted Pilsners to look like Pilsners. I made the upgrade to full volume BIAB and 67 batches, 4 years ago and the beer quality was a big upgrade. Very high quality.

I gave some recommendations to someone a couple posts up and feel they apply here to. Please review and see if they help you too. And let us know how it goes. :luck:
    • SVA Brewer With Over 50 Brews From United States of America

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Post #8785 made 1 month ago
Hi,
First post,
I'm from SW Missouri. I found the site looking for a BIAB version of a beer I wanted to make.
I started with two extract beers that just didn't cut it on the ability to achieve the flavor I wanted, and they were cumbersome (and messy) to make. I looked at traditional 2 and three vessel brewing and stumbled upon BIAB and never looked back.
I have been doing BIAB for about 4 years.
I have a career in the sciences, and find brewing an interest that combines skill, art and science. I also am inclined to use a bit more equipment for high quality testing and repeatability of brews.
I'm always on the lookout for a better or more intuitive brewing calculator.
I brew lower IBU but high flavor beers as my genetics limit my tolerance of bittering compounds. On the other hand, I have been aggressively dry hopping quite a few of my beer styles especially ales and Helles type lagers.
I'm also a rather enamored by a couple of the Norwegian yeast strains ( Hornidal and Voss) done as unboiled or lightly pasteurized dry hopped beers.
Currently I have a Schwarzbeer, a Rye, a Norwegian wheat and a dry hopped wheat in kegs.
Steve
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

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Post #8786 made 1 month ago
Welcome, jja. Brewing definitely combines skill, art and science and your lab experience will serve you well. BIAB is very hands-on and the process is one you can watch, even fermentation if you use glass fermenters. I think that it is better than stuffing ingredients into a vessel and flipping a switch. It is more challenging to get high reproducibility using BIAB.; as long as you keep good notes, you can do it. :think:

I have read about Kveik / Voss yeast and their high fermentation temperatures, but have not tried it yet. You can inform the rest of us when you start doing yours that way.
I am always interested in rye in the grist, having brewed an ale with 40% and no real problems with draining the pulled bag. I am now drinking an ale made with 16% oats that is good and subtly different in its body. Next year I'll go for a combination of both rye and oats with a base malt and see what happens.

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Post #8787 made 1 month ago
ShorePoints wrote:
1 month ago
It is more challenging to get high reproducibility using BIAB.; as long as you keep good notes, you can do it. :think:
@ShorePoints - you must be comparing BIAB to a system that has everything automated, and perhaps @Jja was describing. I get much better consistency than others in my brew group that all use standard 3V systems, with me using the BIABacus for calculations and the traditional full volume BIAB process. Most of them use manual by hand calculations and probably are less exact than me with their ingredient measurements.

Depends on the brew. For example I have a much easier time with a Munich Helles getting excellent consistency, than an American Pale Ale recipe because of reliance on higher flavored hops, and how dependent results are to exact Hop addition procedures used. Or exactly how well the yeast performs during fermentation. Admittedly I have no experience with super automated systems and if they can trim variables even more - yeah, should result in even better consistency. :scratch: But point is, at least compared to normal non-automated / traditional 3V systems, BIAB with proper use of the BIABacus software should be more consistent.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 50 Brews From United States of America

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Post #8788 made 1 month ago
Scott is correct.
My comparison of my own BIAB brewing is to the majority in my local home brew club. They are engineers, contractors and high-tech guys. Most use a commercial web recipe builder and automated brewing systems either self-built or grainfather type. Four get together and brew once a week on 15 gallon scale. They make the same 4 beers repeatedly with consistent results and a lot more hardware than I’ll ever own. Two started a very small commercial brewery that is five years old now.
I’ll clarify my remark about reproducibility, limiting it to mean folks like me who brew outdoors in four different seasons and aren’t trying to make the exact same beer. I love it when they taste my brews and ask if I am still doing BIAB. It is not as crude as ‘earth, air, fire and water’ in a retort but I do lots more by hand and get beer, too. :peace:

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Post #8789 made 1 month ago
@ShorePoints

“I have read about Kveik / Voss yeast and their high fermentation temperatures, but have not tried it yet. You can inform the rest of us when you start doing yours that way”

I have done quite a few brews with Hornidal and Voss Kveik. Yes they ferment at really hot temps (35C , 95F) and I get no phenolic flavors. I don’t worry much about temp control when I use these yeasts. I get fruity and tropical flavors. The guys at the LBS were skeptical until I brought beer which was a Voss Kveik and DME starter liquid I carbonated. No hops no boil and a lot of flavor which can only come from the yeast.
Give it a try.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

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Post #8792 made 2 weeks ago
A tiny mountain town in BC, Canada.

A buddy who's been doing BIAB for several years recommended this site, and I had already run across it during interweb searches etc.

I'm hopeful that it will be most helpful. I've previously been encouraged that sites like homebrewtalk have been more positive and helpful than most online forums, and by reputation this site is supposed to be superb. Excited!

I've brewed 20 or more 23L extract batches. My usual now is LME plus steeping grains, and I have figured our a way to get the results I want while making a very short brew day, ex. I can do 2 23L simultaneously including clean up in 2 hrs. Got a kid and limited time, so this has been working well for me. But I have a buddy who is an actual brewmaster at a craft brewery who, not being a big fan of my pagan process, has offered to hook me up with almost free grain and yeast so I'm super keen to see if I can do a 23L BIAB on my 1500W stovetop in a relatively short period of time.

I'm particularly interested in a mash in a small water volume, short or no boil, and hopstand process (this would mimic my quick LME process that I'm using now to nice results).


1. Where are you from?
2. How did you stumble across the site?
3. What you think of it so far?
4. Have you brewed at all before. If so, for how long and what method are you currently using?
5. Do you work? Are you retired or maybe you run a household?
    • BME Brewer With Over 5 Brews From Canada

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Post #8793 made 2 weeks ago
Welcome Aggie,

This is definitely a positive forum to come and get loads of information about brew in a bag and brewing in general. There are members who have been involved with BIAB before there were commercial options. As far as the goal of keeping a 2 hour brew day, I'm not sure how close you will come but I'm sure someone smarter than I will chime in. Today's malts are better modified for faster conversion than they have been in the past. Most of the conversion is said to take place in the first 15 minutes, or so I've read. This may mean that you need to use more than the typical grain bill to reach your target gravity readings. Many of our members also use the no chill method which will save you time on brew day and allow you to come back and pitch your yeast the following day. You will or likely have heard people discuss the possibility of allowing infection to set into your beer if not immediately chilled but as long as you have good cleaning and sanitizing practices this shouldn't be a problem. You may struggle with boiling 23L with a 1500w burner. The main issue here is the boil concentrates your wort and helps drive off undesirable compounds like dimethyl sulfide (DMS), often described as having a cooked corn like flavor. Don't let that stop you though there are plenty of people out there cutting mash and boil schedules short and making beer they enjoy, which in my opinion is the most important aspect. Again welcome to the forum and I look forward to seeing you around.

Cheers
Tony
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Post #8794 made 2 weeks ago
Hello @Aggie10,

A couple thoughts to add to Tony’s advice...

We are going to prefer more proper and longer established brewing traditions with a longer mash time and a longer boil time... In fact, we prefer 90-minute mash and 90-minute boil.

That said, some including the Brülosophy blog writers have been doing tests with “Short and Shoddy” brewing, where you cut corners on processes in the sake of saving time. They report success with this, so quite honestly there must be something to it. I would figure on needing to use more grain to get the job done. The BIABacus file (Excel) should be capable of altering and running variables like time lower just fine.

You have my curiosity up on this one and I would really like to hear how it goes for you.

:luck:
    • SVA Brewer With Over 50 Brews From United States of America

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Post #8795 made 2 weeks ago
Angie - I took a photo of a 12 cm long banana slug on a trail near Squamish, BC. Is that near you?
...LME plus steeping grains, and I have figured our a way to get the results I want while making a very short brew day, ex. I can do 2 23L simultaneously including clean up in 2 hrs.

LME is post-mash material concentrated to a viscous state, meaning that it is high in fermentable sugars. Steeping grains, or adjuncts, provide flavors and starch, proteins and more, but do not supply much in the way of enzymes that convert starches to fermentable sugars during a mash at proper temperature. If you remove LME and replace it with base grains (that do provide enzymes for starch conversion) yet do a short mash time period at less-than-most-favorable temperature, you will not get very much in the way of fermentable sugars compared to other procedures. Fermentation will give you a low alcohol beer with lots of starches (apparent low attenuation). See the chart in the middle of the second row at http://bit.ly/2pnFnSH and read http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Starch_Conversion I say 'apparent low attenuation' in that the ABV will be low while the yeast may have fully attenuated the very limited amount of fermentable sugars available. The yeast does not consume the starch.
There may be base grains sufficiently 'modified' by maltsters that can do the starch conversion by their enzymes in short times and whatever temperatures others have used to get beer, but I know it does not apply to all combinations of grains in the grist. I would also venture that the efficiency in time (valuable to you) costs more in grain weight (not significant to you) - see that graph again for how much more fermentable sugars one gets at 90 min over 40 min mash times. Am33106 Tony's advice on "most" being extracted early is correct, but how much is discarded? Total water volume is also important for extraction from solids, providing mobility to the mixture. Much less mash liquid means thicker paste of solids and less stuff extracted.
Boiling kills things that you do not want in your fermenter. No boil means that if they are present at the start, you have not killed them. It could all work out fine, but you have increased the risk of infection.

You may still proceed with a trial run and get beer, but try one batch before doing two simultaneously. Picture how you will lift the heavy wet bag of spent grains and where you will put it. Good luck.
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